When is Betrayal decided for the refugee quests?

[Fae Flame]

Was wondering if someone code-savvy could let me know when the dice rolls for this. Is it towards the end of the deadline for the quest or at the very start? Just had a guy with a kid following him. The kid ended up loving my settlement and joined me. Three days later the guy ends up being a scav and tries to take everyone else out. Just made me think about when that decision "clicked" for him lol.

[HunterSilver]

From my understanding it's decided when the event spawns, so refugees know that they'll betray you or not as soon as the quest is offered.

[VitaKaninen]

I guess from a coding perspective that makes sense, but not really from the story perspective.

If they all know the plan from the beginning, and one of them joins you, that should be the moment that they all turn on you. Otherwise, why would the one who joined you keep the other refugee's plans a secret from you and let you be caught offguard?

[Aranador]

There are I think 3 different refugee quests - all look identical to the player, but refugee - betrayal, refugee - traitor, and refugee - joiner are all different events.

[Astasia]

You used to be able to tell through gameplay means if they were going to betray you or not. I think you couldn't unequip their weapons or something like that if they were going to betray. That got fixed at some point. But ya it's predetermined.

The quest also says "It seems [lodgersPronoun] had this treachery planned all along." So ya, both mechanically and storywise they were always going to betray you. In the case of one joining you before the others betray, maybe they just weren't in on it.

[Kittenpox]

From memory, and I could be wrong here, it used to be possible to tell who were genuine refugees and who were raiders in disguise by looking at the quest itself once you'd accepted them - but that bit got changed so the player couldn't suss them out in advance.
Which means that they know in advance whether or not they're going to turn.

As for joining, I believe that has some RNG to it and is unrelated to the betrayal itself.

Originally posted by VitaKaninen:

Otherwise, why would the one who joined you keep the other refugee's plans a secret from you and let you be caught offguard?

The way I rationalise this is that it's a plan from whoever didn't join you. There was going to be a moment of "Let's get 'em!" but their own people aren't great at hiding their intentions so not everybody got told the plan in advance.

So while your new recruit Max goes "Hey, this place is really nice. I want to stay here where they have popcorn and slippers" the leader of their (former) group is like "screw Max, he was weak anyway. Let's get 'em!" and has their remaining people begin the assault from inside your base.

[Vermillion Cardinal]

Originally posted by Kittenpox:

From memory, and I could be wrong here, it used to be possible to tell who were genuine refugees and who were raiders in disguise by looking at the quest itself once you'd accepted them - but that bit got changed so the player couldn't suss them out in advance.
Which means that they know in advance whether or not they're going to turn.

Now it's replaced by having child refugees in a run where child raiders are disabled. The old betrayal offer option still works for those wanting peace of mind.

[Veylox]

You could probably reload and find out

[Mati_Lublin]

Betrayal is always decided at the beginning of the quest. I got two refugee groups at the same time once, accepted both and one of them decided to betray me regardless of the autosave loading, the other one played nice.

Regarding of refugee joining you but the rest betraying you I always go explain it for myself that said pawn wasn't in cahoots with them at all.

This quest is a good reason to play without child raiders - I got father-daughter couple (no weird thoughts please), girl was 8 y.o. Week later father joined, she didnt. Weird, but ok. The next day she betrayed me. Ridiculous.

[Ewell]

On a side note, I find it hilariously stupid people with tattered clothes, knives and clubs think trying to betray people with power armour, large guns and energy weapons is a good idea.

[Mati_Lublin]

Agreed, execution (uuuch...) of their plan is not the best.

[Tam]

I've made tests, accepted quest and saved.
Upon reloading several times to the very beginning the quest is always a betrayal, so its outcome known by quest design at start, nothing affects that duyring gameplay.

[VitaKaninen]

Originally posted by Tamm:

I've made tests, accepted quest and saved.
Upon reloading several times to the very beginning the quest is always a betrayal, so its outcome known by quest design at start, nothing affects that duyring gameplay.

So the game was not lying to you when it said they had planned it all along.