Dumb question but....

[TRK]

How does you make a proper killzone? I know I made one a long time ago but even with what little I remember it wasn't that good (tech may have been a playing part in that one) so anyone know how to build a proper killzone?

[HunterSilver]

There are a bunch of different ways to make killboxes and other similar concepts. The core idea is: You have minimal time and danger before you can start attacking, while enemies have minimal defense and opportunities to fire back.

So for example, if you're using melee only colonists in the core game, you want to force enemies around blind corners where you can immediately engage them in melee without letting them get shots off.

If you've got lots of gunners, you generally them want behind cover in a long hallway where raiders are forced to stand in the open while you gun them down.

Turrets can be incorporated but are generally best used where their explosions cannot hit colonists, and where they will draw as much fire from your colonists as possible.

Here's a general example of a very basic one that I use for standard fights. Enemies have to crawl over the sandbags, slowing them down and bottlenecking them as they come out into optimal firing range for my gunners. Mechanoids provide bullet shields for my colonists, and my melee units are psychics who teleport high priority targets (enemies with doomsday rocket launchers, skip shields, etc.) into melee range to disable and quickly kill them.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3104238137

[Ivarukฅ(^•ᴥ•^)ฅﾉ彡]

cool seeing a "simple" build here, im used to seeing all sorts of crazy ♥♥♥♥ in killboxes and people tend just to load them up with turrets and the like. I've relied on my people being good fighters to deal with threats. A lot of times turrets, especially the basic ones just eat some damage so my people can get there.

So far my use of the big turrets has been pretty lackluster, considering even tribals can just run up to them and break them with ikwas and ♥♥♥♥ lol i dont think ive ever fended off any attacks in my playtime through automated means

[MadArtillery]

Quite the indepth question I'll leave fancy details to someone who actually likes building fancy killboxes.

Generally chokepoint with cover for you and no cover for the enemy. A hallway of whatever width, with wall, sandbag, wall, sandbag, wall alternating as cover on the end your colonists are on. Walls being the best cover by a longshot makes fights incredibly onesided. Preferably with a cap at the end to prevent enemies outranging whatever weapons you use. They can look quite different depending on what tools you plan to use. Gas chambers? Fire? Giant Diablos hellcannons? Bunch of doors to swarm with melee? Long range? Short range? Traps? Exploit glitch boxes that can invalidate essentially infinite enemies and make having raids turned on pointless?

Originally posted by HunterSilver:

Here's a general example of a very basic one that I use for standard fights. Enemies have to crawl over the sandbags, slowing them down and bottlenecking them as they come out into optimal firing range for my gunners. Mechanoids provide bullet shields for my colonists, and my melee units are psychics who teleport high priority targets (enemies with doomsday rocket launchers, skip shields, etc.) into melee range to disable and quickly kill them.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3104238137

The cover is terrible in the example from hunter. Wall cover is important and lacking it offers nothing to that design that I can see. I don't believe it would effect the firing from the backline mechs and it doesn't look wide enough for it to be an issue with los from the gunners. Wider does require a curve to the killbox to make full use of walls which gets complicated. How crawling over things works got changed as well so once they get past the first barricade they'll actually stop being slowed until they touch flat ground again. They just run along the flat surface on top at full speed. Oddly open doors actually slow someone however even stacked directly in front of eachother. Quite a bad example overall as far as teaching goes.

[-HoK- Cian]

It is not a dumb question. Making kill zones it an art and a science and there are alot of different ways that people prefer to build it.

[VitaKaninen]

In my latest playthrough, I am using the Psycats expanded mod, and it completely negates the need for a killbox.

The Decoy skill forces all the mobs to attack the decoy instead of your people, so you can just meet the enemy in the field and distract them while you mow them down.

[Similar]

Originally posted by Ivarukฅ(^•ᴥ•^)ฅﾉ彡:

So far my use of the big turrets has been pretty lackluster, considering even tribals can just run up to them and break them with ikwas and ♥♥♥♥ lol i dont think ive ever fended off any attacks in my playtime through automated means

I do, but that's because I have to with a solo Highmate mechanitor. Usually needs a lot of traps aside from the turrets. A sort of half circle so the turrets can support each other when enemies get up close sort of works (especially if spaced so one exploding doesn't take out several), but with a fair bit of friendly fire. And a lot of repair work after each battle. It's pretty expensive in resources, labour and time (also because every season or two lightning tends to take out all the traps).

If I played on higher difficulties and/or with more hostile factions I'd most likely be screwed.
Unless perhaps I got a map with some conveniently placed deep water, but that's not terribly easy to find.

[MadArtillery]

Turrets are indeed at best mediocre, especially with the whole explosion risk that makes them exceptionally unwieldy. Let alone the steel upkeep cost ugh. Just making some mechanoids is better. Turrets ai manipulation is better than their combat effectiveness.

[HunterSilver]

Originally posted by MadArtillery:

How crawling over things works got changed as well so once they get past the first barricade they'll actually stop being slowed until they touch flat ground again.

It causes necessary separation of groups even with the updates to crawling, without that they will all just flood in. A big chunk of the effectiveness of this setup is that targets are sufficiently filtered through so that you're picking them off either individually or a few at a time.

The real downside is that barricades and sandbags block some of the smaller animals from being able to freely enter, causing them to attack my barricades. Not that you particularly need a killbox to fight manhunters.

Walls are kind of a complicated issue. They're 75% cover instead of the current 55%, but at the cost of disabling different defensive groupings and causing LoS issues depending on the angle. Different enemies need different tactics, and using walls can cause problem for skip shields and skips in general. I would argue it's not quite as cut and dry as 75% v 55%.

[MadArtillery]

Originally posted by HunterSilver:

Originally posted by MadArtillery:

How crawling over things works got changed as well so once they get past the first barricade they'll actually stop being slowed until they touch flat ground again.

It causes necessary separation of groups even with the updates to crawling, without that they will all just flood in. A big chunk of the effectiveness of this setup is that targets are sufficiently filtered through so that you're picking them off either individually or a few at a time.

The real downside is that barricades and sandbags block some of the smaller animals from being able to freely enter, causing them to attack my barricades. Not that you particularly need a killbox to fight manhunters.

Walls are kind of a complicated issue. They're 75% cover instead of the current 55%, but at the cost of disabling different defensive groupings and causing LoS issues depending on the angle. Different enemies need different tactics, and using walls can cause problem for skip shields and skips in general. I would argue it's not quite as cut and dry as 75% v 55%.

Have you considered just having a caster spot one or 2 tiles up? If you place the walls right line of sight should be a minimal issue.

If you want to stop them flooding in its just making sure you activate their collision so they can't walk through eachother. Please don't lie to a newbie and say this slows anyone though because it doesn't. They move full speed over all that, slow down it does not.

I do think a less tech and psi cast reliant design would be far more helpful to actually be educational. If you copy pasted this into industrial tech without psi casts it'd perform poorly compared to a more generalist design. I highly doubt It's a particularly useful educational tool.

[HunterSilver]

I'm not sure why you would think I'm lying. This is literally my killbox. It's demonstrably easy to test even, I haven't been ambiguous about how it looks at all.

[MadArtillery]

Originally posted by HunterSilver:

I'm not sure why you would think I'm lying. This is literally my killbox. It's demonstrably easy to test even, I haven't been ambiguous about how it looks at all.

Originally posted by HunterSilver:

Enemies have to crawl over the sandbags, slowing them down .

Perhaps going back and editing your wording may be recommended. Slowing down enemies is object, space, object, space, object, open doors, or water.

[HunterSilver]

It does slow them down. Groups break apart and spread out, causing them to filter through 1 at a time, significantly slowing down how they move into the killbox.

[AldouzTek]

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2979474233

[MadArtillery]

Originally posted by HunterSilver:

It does slow them down. Groups break apart and spread out, causing them to filter through 1 at a time, significantly slowing down how they move into the killbox.

That is collision activating not the barricades slowing movement. It triggers when the game considered an enemy "In Combat." You can trigger this through doorways. A squirrel zoned in a room near the entrance with a door will have that effect. Usually a turret behind a door in a tiny box works just fine. Turret doesn't even need to be powered. Raiders should ignore it and boom, no one walking through anyone, no sudden popping of raiders bursting into your killbox like a clowncar exploded.

https://youtu.be/eTJf0-pusxQ?si=EvThWWEAWjDrtpNI&t=340

Is a decent explanation starting at 5:40

[Similar]

Originally posted by MadArtillery:

Usually a turret behind a door in a tiny box works just fire. Turret doesn't even need to be powered.

oh, I see that in Real Ruins ruins and I've been wondering what the point was.