Is there an actual use to batteries

[Veylox]

I never really used any energy source apart from water, geothermal, and toxifiers, so I never used bateries. I heard they could explode during zzt events and that solar flares depleted them anyway making them useless as a back-up power source.

Is there any reason at all to use them along with stable energy sources ?

[Antearz]

Nguyên văn bởi Astasia:

Nguyên văn bởi Antearz:

If You got a Base with 60 Colonists each of which need a Biosculptor Pod, Sleep Accelerator and Neuralcharger. Then thats 60 Toxifier Generators just for that alone.

If you are playing a 60 colonist base you probably aren't picking the smallest possible map size. 60 toxifier generators would still take nearly 1000 days to fully pollute a 325 map, assuming you started on day 1 with 60 toxifier generators, but it takes years to build up to that point to begin with.

Anyway, the point is toxifier generators replace early power sources like solar and wind which need batteries. Late game mass power generation has previously been chemfuel anyway which takes up far less space than wind/solar and is again stable so no need for batteries.

You are free to play however you like of course, but building 120 solar generators and like 100 batteries to power a 60 colonist transhumanist base is not optimal. Whether you pick chemfuel generators and have to deal with chemfuel production, or pick toxifier generators and eventually after a few decades have to start dealing with waste is up to you.

Nguyên văn bởi Antearz:

2000 Days is also Nothing to alot of People.

Going to say "a lot of people" is probably stretching that quite a bit. 2000 days is like 100 hours on 3x speed without pausing and a rock steady 360 TPS. I'd be willing to bet 99% of players finish games in under 10 years. And for the less than 1% that have managed to hit year 33 it wasn't "nothing" to them.

Nguyên văn bởi Morkonan:

I've had Zzzts with far less batteries that blew out a wall and killed pawns nearby. (9-12 batteries, maybe?) I don't know if that has been rebalanced in a later patch.

It only ever does 50 bomb damage which is the same as one frag grenade, more power in the batteries increase the total radius, but bomb damage has significant damage falloff so that increased radius has minimal effect. Standing directly next to the conduit that blows is dangerous even with a wall on it even at just 9 full batteries, with enough batteries the radius can expand the bomb explosion to a max of 4.5 tiles but by that distance it's doing like 1/5 damage or less. The flame explosion can hit up to 15 tiles, that only does 10 fire damage, the fire itself spreads from the center I believe and the bomb portion cancels it out so it doesn't set any fires at that point IIRC.

1.
Hell No.
If You Play Large Colonies You sure as Hell will not use a Big Map Mate.
Performance will become an Issue Anyway. So You really dont want extra Performance Hits from having a Giant Map most of which You aint gonna use anyway.


My Current Colony has 113 Colonists and Requires a bit under 250.000 Watts.
That would be 150 Toxifier Generators.
Its a 275 to 275 Map. So about 76.000 Tiles.
I am on Day 600 right now.

Which means if I used Toxifier Generators. My Map would be 100% Polluted in 253 Days.
And You dont need 100% Pollution for Bad things to Happen.

Pls also Note.
I do already have 3 Atomizers which are Busy Cleaning up the Pollution from Mech Chargers.

But if I were to Power my Base using Toxifiers. I would need 75 Atomizers as they Deal with 2 Tiles per Day as well.
Which would also be another 30.000 Watts of Energy.
So another 22 Generators just to Run these.



2.
I did actually try doing this with Chemfuel in the past.
But that means Absurd amounts of either Wood or Fungus constantly Converted into Chemfuel which means 10 or more Colonists constantly Busy doing nothing but Producing Chemfuel and Filling Chemfuel Generators.

Also pls Note that Nobody Says You should only use Solar and Wind for a Base of this Scale.
What I generally do. Is to have all the Geothermals Planted and Walled with .
Have Wind and Solar Mix as Primary Energy.
And have a Large Room with Chemfuel Generators which are on Standby so I can throw them on if needed.


If You were to use Exclusively Solar Power. You would need like 500.000 Watts for my Base.
Which would mean 300 Solar Panels. Which would mean nearly 5000 Tiles Occupied Purely by Solar Panels.
Which is fine on a 76.000 Tiles Map. But still alot of Required Space just for that.
You would also need about 400 Batteries to Safely Last through the Night.
Which is another 800 Tiles.

I mean this is Possible. Especially because what I usually do is have Blocks of Solar Panels Outside the Base and Simply Walled up with the Wires under a Wall Line going back to my Base.

But its still a waste of Space.
So I usually have Smaller Solar Blocks around Geothermals, And then Windpower Spread over my Fields. (And You need ALOT of Field to Feed over 100 Colonists)

Rest Depends on wether I got a Mountainbase or Fieldbase.
Depending on that I will use Fungus or Oak Trees to Produce Chemfuel so I can Power Chmefuel Generators if my Energy gets Destroyed or otherwise Blocked (Eclipse, Volcanic Ash etc)

And unlike Toxifiers. Solar Panels and Wind dont need any additional Work beyond Occassionally Repairing them.



3.
Problem with that. This is Based on Your Idea of Energy Consumption and Timescale.
As You See my Colony is nowhere near 2000 Days but already Requiring much more Energy.
Which for Fairness Said is not so Surprising. Its a Large Colony of Transhumanist AND Mechanitors.
Which is basicly the Two most Energy Hungry things in the Game.

I mean my Last Colony had over 160 Colonists but Required only Half of that Energy. Meaning I would have had over 500 Days before the Map would have been Polluted.
Albeit this was a 250x250 Map. So maybe a bit less than 500 Days. Too lazy to Calculate.

Also.
Mate.
I got 1600 Hours in the Game.
And Yes. A Player which only Plays the Game for 100 Hours and Moves on. Will likely not need anything but Toxifier Generators.

But lets also be Honest here.
A Player like that is not gonna be Calculating this Stuff.


4.
Zzzzt Caps out at 90.000 Wd

At 4900 Wd You start getting the Explosion which Deals 50 Bomb Damage.
Below that You only get 10 Flame Damage

At 90.000 Wd the Explosion Caps out at 5 Tiles Radius for the Bomb and with 15 Tiles Flame Radius.

Thats also why if You want to Prevent the Risk of Explosions Killing Your Pawns. The most Simple Way is Generally to just Seperate Your Energy Grids and Battery Blocks into Smaller Parts where You only have 6-8 Batteries for each Block. (4800 WD)
In a Large Colony like mine I need several Electric Stoves to even Produce Meals Fast enough.
But these dont need more than a Single Battery Block. They are not that Energy Intensive.

My Neuralchargers are a Different Story. They Require Crabtons of Energy.
They alone make up nearly 60.000 Watts of my Energy Consumption.
But they are not Essentially Required. So I can put them on a Large Solar Block with alot of Batteries but have the Conduit for them Run Seperately inside a Thick Wall where my Colonists aint going to be.
And even if the Batteries go Empty for a Day and get Destroyed. Its not going to Endanger my Base.

Likewise my Biosculptor Pods only Require Energy when Used.
So I can keep them and their Batteries behind a Switch so I can Disconnect most of them during the 60 Days Interval where they wont be Used.

Sunlamps dont need Batteries at all cause they only turn on during the Day.
Only the Hydroponics need Energy during the Night.
Which means I can put them on Solar Panels with only few Batteries. As during the Night they will use far less Energy than during the Day.

Meanwhile the Stuff that Requires Constant Energy like Mech Chargers, Bandnodes and Crafting Stations etc.
Will have as much of the Permanent Energy Sources Connected to their Grid.
So they need as little Batteries as Possible.

Other Stuff only Requires Energy during Raids. Like Turrets and Defenses.
So rather than having them constantly need Energy and thus Require Batteries constantly Connected to the Grid to bring them through the Night.
Its better that each Defensive Position with alot of Turrets. Has its own Walled up Solar Panel Block with Batteries behind a Switch. That way You need far fewer Solar Panels to begin with. As the Defenses only need to be Turned on during Raids. You dont enough Solar Panels to actually Power all Turrets at Once as they can just Load up the Batteries while the Turrets are off. Instead You can Build more Batteries so that once Turned on the Turrets last a Day or Two on Battery Power.
The Switch and Batteries cannot have a Zzzt Event. So if You only Switch the Conduits for the Turrets On when needed. You wont have any Problems.
Or You can be Cheeky and use Batteries as Conduits for the Turrets. Thus this entire Block not having Zzzt Chance at all.



So if You know how to work with this.
You can actually make sure that You wont lose Colonists from Zzzt Events.

[Ivarukฅ(^•ᴥ•^)ฅﾉ彡]

mans wrote an essay

[357 Magnum Ace]

Nguyên văn bởi Veylox:

I never really used any energy source apart from water, geothermal, and toxifiers, so I never used bateries. I heard they could explode during zzt events and that solar flares depleted them anyway making them useless as a back-up power source.

Is there any reason at all to use them along with stable energy sources ?

Batteries are there to ensure you do not waste any generated power or would like to store some for emergency uses. Here are some examples where batteries are useful:

1) Using solar technology. You will need this to power through the night without a continuous power source to supplement it.

2) Using wind technology. Great source of power, but unreliable. Batteries are necessary for practical utilization.

3) Using fueled generators. Usually you are not using every drop of electricity, so you can create battery banks to store the excess and then switch off your fueled generators for a time.

4) You have special use power needs. An example is extensive automated security network that has a switch so it can be turned on and off. Your normal energy infrastructure may not support this, but if you have a batteries you use those when the system is needed.

There are more reasons besides, but if you use continuous power sources and have no special use designs in your base, then very likely batteries wont be necessary for you at all.

Though as far as the zzzzzt event goes, be wary with massive power reserves. The destructive power of that event is tied to how much power is sitting in your circuit.

Edit: It may also be possible to transport a charged battery. I've never tried this or know if it increases its value, but if it retains charge then it's a vanilla way to transport energy to new colonies (If you're nomadic). Also to camps if you use that mod.

[The Blind One]

Batteries are a special case utility building.

Batteries have good utility in more extreme biomes where wood to fuel generators isn't so common and you are forced to use wind and solar for longer.

[Edmund Greyfox]

And this is why i use the advanced power generation mod. 1 nuclear plant =20K watts for the same footprint as a thermal plant, and i can place them anywhere. No fuss, no pollution, no batteries, and no zzzzttt worries. I've never liked the way power generation works in the vanilla game, so this was one of the first mods i added to my collection.

[The Blind One]

Nguyên văn bởi Edmund Greyfox:

And this is why i use the advanced power generation mod. 1 nuclear plant =20K watts for the same footprint as a thermal plant, and i can place them anywhere. No fuss, no pollution, no batteries, and no zzzzttt worries. I've never liked the way power generation works in the vanilla game, so this was one of the first mods i added to my collection.

I wish they had given the ship reactor more of an actual utility. It probably could've served a dual purpose of being the advanced high tech generator for a colony. It only gives 1000W in vanilla but if they had given it 10k power for the late game it would've been a great building to construct and an excellent way to flesh out the late game section of the research tree by providing a late game power source.

[-HoK- Cian]

Batteries are what they are. An inefficient backup power source in case your primary goes offline. Doesnt matter why or how. Its just a backup to keep everything running until you can fix the problem.

Its like the argument of having children in the game. Why grow them when you can purchase, enslave, or otherwise rando join colonists? Its just another means of growing your colony. Nothing more nothing less. Its all about freedom of choice.

[Blind]

Nguyên văn bởi Veylox:

I never really used any energy source apart from water, geothermal, and toxifiers, so I never used bateries. I heard they could explode during zzt events and that solar flares depleted them anyway making them useless as a back-up power source.

Is there any reason at all to use them along with stable energy sources ?

wind and solar kinda need them to work efficiently. Also some android and robot mods require them to recharge at a battery.

[Astasia]

Nguyên văn bởi Antearz:

If You Play Large Colonies You sure as Hell will not use a Big Map Mate.

I said you wouldn't use the smallest map. You then said a few lines after this that you are using a 275x275 map. That is twice the size of the smallest map. I don't know why you are disagreeing with me here.

Map size doesn't have that much effect on performance anyway, it's more the number of wild animals/plants. A 325x325 desert easily performs better than a 200x200 rainforest. Assuming performance is ever an issue for your CPU.

Most people want some amount of extra space outside their base to give them time to react to enemies and to minimize random drop raids or clusters landing inside their base. I'm assuming this is why you yourself didn't pick the smallest map.

Nguyên văn bởi Antearz:

My Current Colony has 113 Colonists and Requires a bit under 250.000 Watts.

That's cool.

Also in the start of chapter 4 you just repeat back to me the same information I had already said about the short circuit event.

I'm struggling to find anything else to respond to as most of your novel doesn't really seem relevant to my post which you quoted.

[Antearz]

Nguyên văn bởi Astasia:

Nguyên văn bởi Antearz:

If You Play Large Colonies You sure as Hell will not use a Big Map Mate.

I said you wouldn't use the smallest map. You then said a few lines after this that you are using a 275x275 map. That is twice the size of the smallest map. I don't know why you are disagreeing with me here.

Map size doesn't have that much effect on performance anyway, it's more the number of wild animals/plants. A 325x325 desert easily performs better than a 200x200 rainforest. Assuming performance is ever an issue for your CPU.

Most people want some amount of extra space outside their base to give them time to react to enemies and to minimize random drop raids or clusters landing inside their base. I'm assuming this is why you yourself didn't pick the smallest map.

Nguyên văn bởi Antearz:

My Current Colony has 113 Colonists and Requires a bit under 250.000 Watts.

That's cool.

Also in the start of chapter 4 you just repeat back to me the same information I had already said about the short circuit event.

I'm struggling to find anything else to respond to as most of your novel doesn't really seem relevant to my post which you quoted.

Hey Mate. If You dont want to Argue thats Fine with me.

I merely Provided a Detailed Explanation why Your earlier Claim that Toxifiers made Batteries Obsolete or that after Midgame You should not have Batteries anyways etc etc.
Is False.

Because not only is there Plenty of other uses for Batteries.
But Batteries if used Correctly are also far more Efficient than Toxifier Generators as they dont Produce Toxic Waste.
Not to mention that Toxifier Generators will become exceedingly Difficult to Maintain in Larger Numbers.

[The Blind One]

Nguyên văn bởi Antearz:

~ stuff said

In your case yes, it makes sense to have batteries, you are seriously pushing the limits of resource and energy management on the map however almost nobody plays with 100+ colonists which is probably what Astasia is considering. You're representing a very small niche of players and playstyles.

A toxifier generator really is based purely on the games economy, the better and more efficient solution, if you consider pollution buildup to be non-consequential if provided conditionally you consider the game 'finished' after 10 years when you build the space ship or ascend the stars. You're not going to build up enough pollution for it to matter in most games. Hence the pollution can be 'ignored'.

That said, I strongly dislike the toxifier generator and never use it because it feels wrong to me to pollute the biome or to even leave it polluted even if I finish the game. However realistically speaking, Astasia is completely right, you can just ignore the pollution buildup in the vast majority of cases. It's not going to matter in you actually 'finishing' the game as by the game's rules.

So pollute away if your goal is to finish the game.

[Raymond]

Nguyên văn bởi Steelfleece:

Solar flares affect the devices that use electricity, not the power sources. For those events, doesn't matter what power you use.

As far as smart building, using nonflammable walls and not going crazy with an abundance of batteries (just have a few spares charged and switched off the grid if required) isn't hamstringing.

I fail to see how tf battery gonna be useful during a solar flare, other than the fact it can store energy while your base shut down. You want an electric grid that is useful year round, not something that only marginally useful once in a blue moon.

As far as smart building goes, you are limiting your flexibility in base building (both in design and building material) just to limit (not eliminate) the potential damage from a structure that cost research, components, building space, and also bloat your colony wealth. Considering the much more superior alternatives like toxicfier and chemfuel generators, you can use not have to build battery and thus free yourself from limitation imposed by the "smart" building.

[VitaKaninen]

Nguyên văn bởi YariMurai:

I fail to see how tf battery gonna be useful during a solar flare, other than the fact it can store energy while your base shut down.

Batteries are good for eclipses if you use solar, for when the wind stops blowing for extended periods if you use turbines, or if your sun lamps use more than your peak output.

If you use generators with a constant output and you never exceed your capacity, then you don't need batteries. Not that difficult to understand.

Also, you don't want to just build massive amounts of infrastructure because of the maintenance cost,

[Astasia]

Nguyên văn bởi Antearz:

I merely Provided a Detailed Explanation why Your earlier Claim that Toxifiers made Batteries Obsolete or that after Midgame You should not have Batteries anyways etc etc.
Is False.

First, I never said people "shouldn't" do anything. If you want to use batteries that's fine.

Second, you really didn't. You described a super edge case where you are playing with far more colonists than the vast majority of players ever touch while using a single specific ideology meme, and then explained your own preference for not using the better options which would be chemfuel or toxifier generators. That's fine, you can play how you want, but nothing you said disputed the fact that solar/wind+batteries are the least efficient power source.

Note, for chemfuel you can use boomalopes, it takes basically no colonist effort to mass produce chemfuel to power hundreds of chemfuel generators. They are refueled so rarely that it doesn't take much colonist effort to refuel them either.

Nguyên văn bởi Antearz:

But Batteries if used Correctly are also far more Efficient than Toxifier Generators as they dont Produce Toxic Waste.

Toxic waste isn't a real issue for probably 99% of playthroughs. Pollution on your map is a bonus, with x120% move speed (multiplicative) and +5% consciousness from pollution stimulus, which is absolutely massive, while deteriorating waste packs create free traps to use against enemies.

Nguyên văn bởi Antearz:

Not to mention that Toxifier Generators will become exceedingly Difficult to Maintain in Larger Numbers.

They output almost double the average power of a solar panel so would be significantly "easier to maintain" than a field of solar panels and a room full of batteries. Breakdowns haven't been a real issue in a while though.

[Raymond]

Nguyên văn bởi Antearz:

1.
Hell No.
If You Play Large Colonies You sure as Hell will not use a Big Map Mate.
Performance will become an Issue Anyway. So You really dont want extra Performance Hits from having a Giant Map most of which You aint gonna use anyway.

Or you can, you know, just not play oversized colony. You can easily beat the game with only 4-8 pawns (pawns if you have mechs). If you actually care about performance hit and min-maxing your base, you would never keep more than 13 pawns, and the remaining 100 pawns should be turned into chemfuel.

Nguyên văn bởi Antearz:

2.
I did actually try doing this with Chemfuel in the past.
But that means Absurd amounts of either Wood or Fungus constantly Converted into Chemfuel which means 10 or more Colonists constantly Busy doing nothing but Producing Chemfuel and Filling Chemfuel Generators.
Also pls Note that Nobody Says You should only use Solar and Wind for a Base of this Scale.
What I generally do. Is to have all the Geothermals Planted and Walled with .
Have Wind and Solar Mix as Primary Energy.
And have a Large Room with Chemfuel Generators which are on Standby so I can throw them on if needed.

If You were to use Exclusively Solar Power. You would need like 500.000 Watts for my Base.
Which would mean 300 Solar Panels. Which would mean nearly 5000 Tiles Occupied Purely by Solar Panels.
Which is fine on a 76.000 Tiles Map. But still alot of Required Space just for that.
You would also need about 400 Batteries to Safely Last through the Night.
Which is another 800 Tiles.

I mean this is Possible. Especially because what I usually do is have Blocks of Solar Panels Outside the Base and Simply Walled up with the Wires under a Wall Line going back to my Base.

But its still a waste of Space.
So I usually have Smaller Solar Blocks around Geothermals, And then Windpower Spread over my Fields. (And You need ALOT of Field to Feed over 100 Colonists)

Rest Depends on wether I got a Mountainbase or Fieldbase.
Depending on that I will use Fungus or Oak Trees to Produce Chemfuel so I can Power Chmefuel Generators if my Energy gets Destroyed or otherwise Blocked (Eclipse, Volcanic Ash etc)

And unlike Toxifiers. Solar Panels and Wind dont need any additional Work beyond Occassionally Repairing them.

If you have more than 100 pawns, then your primary issue is unemployment, not the lack of employment. Idle pawns cause the most impact to the game performance as they constantly look up their entire job list in a very short interval, whatever busy pawns only have to go through their job stack in the memory. Having 10 colonists producing chemfuel is a good thing, not the other way around.
2 solar panels need 3 or more batteries to supply one sunlamp cost around 15 components and 1000+ steels. The 2 toxicfiers+1 pollution pump set up produce the same amount of constant power 24/7 cost 7 components and 325 steels. Add 1 lifter + 1 small charging station to keep your toxcifier grid working with 0 humanoid pawn's interference cost only an additional 3 components and 225 pawns, bringing to a total of 10 components and 550 steel. Yes, Solar panels doesn't cost any additional investment after you set them up, that's because you already paying up more than twice the amount of resources and space for a grid that only offer half of the energy compared to it's competitor.

Nguyên văn bởi Antearz:

Or You can be Cheeky and use Batteries as Conduits for the Turrets. Thus this entire Block not having Zzzt Chance at all.
So if You know how to work with this.
You can actually make sure that You wont lose Colonists from Zzzt Events.

Hardly a new tips when people used to abuse this back in the day. Tynan already knew about this exploit and nerf the battery long ago, so now zzzts will happens even if you only have battery.
The best way to not lose your colonists to a zzzt event is to not have a grid that will blew up your colonists in the face.