RimWorld

RimWorld

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Nooby Nov 4, 2023 @ 10:25am
Combat extended yes or no?
do you play it or not? and why?
Originally posted by Dr.Acula:
Originally posted by Wantoomany:
I think the disconnect is how CE often gets presented. If some new player comes here saying vanilla combat sucks, before even really understanding it, and someone presents CE as FIX for vanilla combat as opposed to an Alternative. The you are understandably leaving the door open for Rimworld pundits and experts from both sides to weigh in.

CE does not and never will FIX Rimwolds combat. Rimworlds combat isn't broken. CE simply offers a different combat experience.
Well, if someone doesn't like vanilla combat in Rimworld then that person might consider it broken and combat extended may (or may not) be a fix in that case. For me it was a fix to a general problem in how Rimworld vanilla expected me to play the combat.

Since I switched to CE my defenses and general playstyle related to the combat has slowly evolved away from bad things I had to do in vanilla combat.

That does not mean vanilla combat is bad for every player. I've said it before in another post. For some vanilla combat is superior and for others it may be CE. Some might dislike both systems (I think there is another mod changing the way combat handles - forgot the name though).

If I look into this Forum or even the Rimworld main Sub-Reddit you constantly see posts with discussions about kill boxes (or flame labyrinths now) and how many try to build them in various ways to basically abuse the AI and construct fortresses that are extremely difficult to get into for attackers. And the reason why people build kill boxes (and labyrinths to burn attackers) is because the vanilla combat system is somewhat limited in what you can do with defenses. Defensive turrets and even ranged weapons are pretty inaccurate and do poor damage (even with the highest tech). Armor also doesn't really stop your pawns from taking damage. It may just reduce the amount of damage they take to some degree. This why a freaking turtle might still defeat your pawn in marine armor who carries a mono sword in some unlucky situations.

So to even out the bad aim and limited damage people try to build these kill boxes where enemies trickle in one by one and are forced into the open so that they can then be shoot down by 10 pawns huddling together behind some barriers.

And whatever else you might think about CE and its problems it allows for way more options in how to defend your base. You could even successfully build an open city without any walls around it. It would be dangerous but possible with the right defensive strategies.

And btw. if you carry a charged rifle around with you while wearing endgame armor then no wild animal (except maybe thrumbos or whatever other similar animal is added through mods) should pose a threat to your pawn anymore if he has at least some minor skills in handling ranged weapons. And for those that are bad at shooting there's always the shotgun...
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Showing 16-30 of 114 comments
Xodox Nov 4, 2023 @ 3:00pm 
There is so much more offered on the steam mods list, and many fit into the lore better than CE.

Dont limit yourself, try CE if you want.

The steam mod scene has a plethora of additional options, that can launch properly without heavy work around patching.
The Yeen Queen (Banned) Nov 4, 2023 @ 4:13pm 
Originally posted by Spriggs:
Originally posted by Night Foxx:

PfffffHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! "Realistic"... That's funny.

more realistic than vanilla

No. Both have ups and downs over the other in that department, but there definitely isn't a better there.
VoiD Nov 4, 2023 @ 4:51pm 
Sometimes, it's the most impactful mod out there, so it's really like a paralel version of Rimworld.

RW combat is fully functional and perfectly enjoyable, but it really looks, feels and plays like a game, it's very arcadey.

CE changes things completely in a way that simply reloading the game and trying an encounter again often won't give you a different outcome, unless you have a ton of mounted heavy machineguns and cannons mounted along a wall, which is not something you can do until the end of the game, the idea of simply sitting behind defenses and firing at attackers just doesn't work, yes, there are embrasures, but even the most common mech snipers just don't miss shot and they will headshot every single one of your pawns trying to use them, CE is all about positioning, flanking and real time decisions, it can be easier in some ways, and it can be much harder in other ways.

You'll also often see people saying "CE is easy" then complain about mechs being impossible, a contradiction, just don't let these people know what a raid fully clad in power armor is like in CE, some mods add factions like that, or you can try fighting the empire, it will make centipedes seem easy to deal with.

As for compatibility issues, that's kind of a meme from years ago, CE is fully compatible with all of the popular mods out there, even the ones claiming it doesn't work with CE, and it still works with most of the obscure ones as well unless they are very obscure and they add equipment to the game.
Wasted Nov 4, 2023 @ 6:36pm 
No
Mintochondriac Nov 4, 2023 @ 6:56pm 
Personally CE because it makes combat damage more permanent and makes me feel like a true american massacring natives and making me feel like dicaprio when hes in that one film about a guy from a certain country in africa.
Laurie Nov 4, 2023 @ 8:13pm 
A lot of people forget that you have to put the difficulty up to 500% to make it balanced because the guns are more realistic therefore more powerful and so raiders dont have a chance unless you turn up the difficulty
Wantoomany Nov 4, 2023 @ 10:07pm 
Originally posted by Laurie:
A lot of people forget that you have to put the difficulty up to 500% to make it balanced because the guns are more realistic therefore more powerful and so raiders dont have a chance unless you turn up the difficulty

This isn't the endorsement you think it is.
Kane526 Nov 5, 2023 @ 12:09am 
Short answer, try it out for yourself and form your own opinion. Asking this question is pointless because both sides have very strong opinions and rarely give the other side a chance.

Long answer. CE is for people who dislike the vanilla combat's random nature.

The armor system in vanilla is quite simple, while CE's is far more complicated. In Vanilla, you compare weapon stats to armor and either get Full Damage, Half Damage, or No Damage. In CE, weapons have penetration values that subtract from the target's armor value, measured in mm. For instance, a gun with 5mm penetration and does 15 damage against 3mm worth of armor, would have the damage be reduced proportionally to the amount of penetration countered by armor, and in this example the damage would drop to about 6. Weapons that deal sharp damage like guns and swords that fail to penetrate, such as 5mm pen vs 10mm armor, will use a completely new and rather complicated formula in which the damage and penetration is converted into blunt, to see if you could at least leave a nasty bruise. The new armor system also prevents certain instances in which pawns will get seemingly lucky hits and gravely wound a pawn they shouldn't have reasonably harmed. Some people like this, other don't.

The addition of ammo makes the game far more tactile, and the loadout mechanic allows panws to utilize multiple weapons and freely swap ammo types for different occasions, such as Armor Piercing rounds and EMP grenades for Mechanoids. If you enjoy playing each combat scenario slowly like it's a game of XCOM, you might like this more tactical approach.

CE awards pawn combat skills more. High shooting skill pawns reload their guns more quickly and become more accurate at greater distances, and the change to accuracy mechanics will reduce instances of skilled pawns missing easy targets. For melee, the addition of a critical hit system as well as parrying creates a dynamic where pawns skilled in melee will greatly outperform those with poor melee skill, as the greater the difference in skill will cause the more skilled pawn to land more critical hits and parry more often against a less skilled enemy.

Cover in CE functions differently. Bullets actually have hitboxes as they travel, and they will have calculated height that drops with distance. So when a bullet looks like it's going to hit someone, it probably will. This also changes how shotguns work, as shotguns will actually fire a spread of projectiles instead of being hit or miss like in Vanilla. CE also adds fragmentation from explosions, so a grenade exploding nearby might tear up a pawn's legs if they aren't protected. Pawns will also actively crouch behind cover. Instead of cover functioning as a reduction to hit chance, cover will take advantage of the new projectile system to actually protect those parts of the pawn's body. So hiding behind a sandbag for instance will stop most bullets from hitting your lower half, so WEAR A HELMET!

Bleeding out is more serious, especially if an organ is hurt. Bleeding can be quickly staunched with the new stabilize mechanic, in which a doctor can use 1 medicine to stop all bleeding in a pawn temporarily, based on skill and medicine quality. This way, pawns that go down can be momentarily saved from bleeding out without immediately having to carry them to a bed.

These changes does however cause the game's balance to be thrown out of wack. Tribals and animals in particular become far less of a threat once you have guns. Which makes sense but it's certainly not very balanced. Likewise, until you get guns for yourself, pirates will be terrifying, and so would mechanoids.

TL;DR Overall CE changes a LOT. Calling it realistic is pointless because its a video game, I prefer the term "sensible" as it makes more sense in some cases, "Guns need bullets" "A dog shouldn't be able to bite through steel plates" "Getting shot is actually super deadly". Get CE if you want to completely change the combat to be more tactical and based around guns. If you just wanna mess with stuff like ammo management, get Yayo's Combat 3 (Continued).

Also, the incompatibilities thing is very much in the past. The mod updates roughly every 2 months and it brings with it multiple pre-built patches for all the popular mods, such as Vanilla Expanded, Fortifications, and Rimsenal. As well as other mods one might now expect like Ratkin or Alpha Mechs. The team works at a decent pace and they do take compatibility requests on their Discord. And yes, it's compatible with the new Vehicle Framework and some Vehicle mods, like Vanilla Vehicles Expanded.
Here is the list of currently supported mods, for anyone curious:
https://github.com/CombatExtended-Continued/CombatExtended/blob/master/SupportedThirdPartyMods.md
Last edited by Kane526; Nov 5, 2023 @ 4:55am
pezenwever Nov 5, 2023 @ 1:17am 
Yes, I do play it. Only occasional there is some minor mod with incompatibility that I can't try because of that reason.
In short ; I realy like what it does to combat, I realy don't like ammo managment with so many ammo types. I could disable this, but I feel it will then gimp CE too much.
CloudSeeker Nov 5, 2023 @ 2:12am 
For me. No. It breaks some of my must have mods.
Elementium Nov 5, 2023 @ 4:11am 
no, incompatibility with too many mods and make melee obsolete last time i try it (years ago)
Ghevd Nov 5, 2023 @ 5:54am 
I've been trying to get CE to work myself. Ignored a few xml errors thinking no big deal but I'm having issue with reloading arrows. Thought it was an bug with the recurved bow but the same happens with a short bow.

Set up the loadout to include the bow and stone arrows. The bow doesn't seem to like stone arrows but that is all I can make as a tribal. Click reload, nothing. Right click and stone arrow seems to be greyed out. Pawn has 18 of them in his inventory and another 30 or so in a stockpile. He just doesn't want to reload that bow.

Gave up in frustration as my fledgling colony slowly succumbs to starvation for not being able to hunt... for now.

I did have a blast as a solo mechinator and everything seemed to be working fine until a diablous decapitated my dude so I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong with reloading now.
Kane526 Nov 5, 2023 @ 7:51am 
Originally posted by Ghevd:
I've been trying to get CE to work myself. Ignored a few xml errors thinking no big deal but I'm having issue with reloading arrows. Thought it was an bug with the recurved bow but the same happens with a short bow.

Set up the loadout to include the bow and stone arrows. The bow doesn't seem to like stone arrows but that is all I can make as a tribal. Click reload, nothing. Right click and stone arrow seems to be greyed out. Pawn has 18 of them in his inventory and another 30 or so in a stockpile. He just doesn't want to reload that bow.

Gave up in frustration as my fledgling colony slowly succumbs to starvation for not being able to hunt... for now.

I did have a blast as a solo mechinator and everything seemed to be working fine until a diablous decapitated my dude so I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong with reloading now.
This is a common misunderstanding. So basically, bows have no magazine so you don't need to reload them. They will just use arrows straight from the pawn's inventory. Right clicking on the arrow in the pawn's action bar is just to switch arrow types if you have more than one, that's why stone arrow is greyed out, it's the type currently selected. When the pawn goes to shoot, they should just fire automatically as long as they have arrows in their inventory. Also make sure you are using Stone Arrows, and not Stone Great Arrows, as those are for the Greatbow. CE actually has a learning helper pop up for this because it's such a common misunderstanding. If you have other questions or problems, you can always join the CE Discord and ask around.
Last edited by Kane526; Nov 5, 2023 @ 7:52am
Raymond Nov 5, 2023 @ 8:01am 
Originally posted by Ghevd:
I've been trying to get CE to work myself. Ignored a few xml errors thinking no big deal but I'm having issue with reloading arrows. Thought it was an bug with the recurved bow but the same happens with a short bow.

Set up the loadout to include the bow and stone arrows. The bow doesn't seem to like stone arrows but that is all I can make as a tribal. Click reload, nothing. Right click and stone arrow seems to be greyed out. Pawn has 18 of them in his inventory and another 30 or so in a stockpile. He just doesn't want to reload that bow.

Gave up in frustration as my fledgling colony slowly succumbs to starvation for not being able to hunt... for now.

I did have a blast as a solo mechinator and everything seemed to be working fine until a diablous decapitated my dude so I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong with reloading now.
check your weapon info for their correct munition. Bow and great bow use 2 different munition type.
Morkonan Nov 5, 2023 @ 12:21pm 
Originally posted by whatamidoing:
No, because I haven't had any issues with vanilla combat.

^-- This. I agree.

Vanilla combat is excellent for this sort of game, IMO.
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Date Posted: Nov 4, 2023 @ 10:25am
Posts: 114