RimWorld

RimWorld

Morkonan Sep 12, 2023 @ 3:52pm
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Unity Unveils New Pricing Model - You OK, Ludeon??
Well...

https://unity.com/pricing-updates

https://gameworldobserver.com/2022/09/13/unity-announces-price-increases-to-reflect-the-value-of-its-products

So, yeah, like... You gonna be OK with that, Tynan?

I assume that Rimworld is locked into an older version and that this new change isn't retroactive to older licensing. But, there could be some new/other bits I'm not aware of. Maybe? Subscriptions? No more customer service help-desk hotline? :)

And, I just gotta say it...

"No discounts! No sales! We know what we've got!" - Unity

:)

UPDATE 9/22 - Mea Culpa, New Plan, Fireside Chat:

Apology letter, here: https://blog.unity.com/news/open-letter-on-runtime-fee

New Plan, better than the old plan: https://unity.com/pricing-updates

Fireside Chat at 4pm, 9/22: youtube.com/watch?v=qyLcI5O9iUY

Summary: New pricing plan, capped at 2.5% of monthly revenue for applicable devs, individual use/installs still "tracked" but self-reported by devs, "initial engagments" is Newspeak for "first install from a distribution channel on a device." So, individual users and individual devices, now adding in unique distribution channels, are part of the Unity lexicon, now, and we might see their inclusion in more "agreements" in the future.

(All this is subject to change, as evidenced... even though Unity has "pledged" not to attempt retroactive policy changes in the future.)

<Older updates, below>

]UPDATED 9/15 : 'Cause stuff changes, yo?

Some updated discussion linkage-

https://blog.unity.com/news/plan-pricing-and-packaging-updates

https://massivelyop.com/2023/09/13/unity-begins-backtracking-on-new-runtime-fees-but-it-hasnt-addressed-indies/

https://www.axios.com/2023/09/13/unity-runtime-fee-policy-marc-whitten

Popcorn available at the Help Desk. Subscription Required, .20 monies per popped kernel, "Popped" subject to change and third-party arbitration, you owe me .20 monies for reading this.

Update (9/18) - Sorry/notsorry psuedo "stay tuned" mea culpa Twitted:

https://twitter.com/unity/status/1703547752205218265

(Expect changes)

On brighter news the Caves of Qud dev got it migrated to Godot in 14 hours and it's running fnie:

https://www.reddit.com/r/gamedev/comments/16lphwe/caves_of_qud_dev_ports_his_game_from_unity_to/

https://www.reddit.com/r/Unity3D/comments/16lrem2/caves_of_qud_dev_migrated_game_core_out_of_unity/

U seein' this, Ludeon? ;)
Last edited by Morkonan; Sep 22, 2023 @ 11:57am
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Showing 1-15 of 210 comments
Chip Sep 12, 2023 @ 4:21pm 
I just hope that the new pay per download thing dont hurt the rimworld devs.
Tiraelina Sep 12, 2023 @ 4:27pm 
According to their FAQ, this applies to everyone next year. Including already released games.
Morkonan Sep 12, 2023 @ 4:31pm 
Originally posted by Tom:
I just hope that the new pay per download thing dont hurt the rimworld devs.

I don't think they're hurting... Besides, if they can't keep the lights on then they'll just cough up new DLC and that'll fix the issue. ;)

The only concern I have is the curiousity of how this could impact existing titles. I don't know much about Unity dev and don't know what sorts of plans/contracts Ludeon could have in force that would be impacted. I would think "none," but I don't know that's a fact. And, for future efforts, if there are any, Ludeon would have to take note here if they plan on using Unity...

I hear Godot is good, but don't know it. That may be something they could consider if they're planning on a follow-up title.

(I don't see how devs are going to flock to a per-install license... That's madness. Unity is dead, long live UE!)
Morkonan Sep 12, 2023 @ 4:33pm 
Originally posted by Tiraelina:
According to their FAQ, this applies to everyone next year. Including already released games.

Yeah, saw that too, but I don't know the specifics... I know that would be true for those using up-to-date services, but for those locked into legacy versions, like Rimworld, I don't know. /shrug

It's got a lot of buzzpages buzzing, right now.

/popcorn.gif :)
The Yeen Queen (Banned) Sep 12, 2023 @ 4:52pm 
I smell a class action suit. I'm not a legal expert, but this seriously doesn't sound legal to me.
Morkonan Sep 12, 2023 @ 5:00pm 
Originally posted by Night Foxx:
I smell a class action suit. I'm not a legal expert, but this seriously doesn't sound legal to me.

It's legal for any and all new users... For those previous license-holders, their own contracts will determine how retroactive this can be. (They could be borked, depending on what the license says is "subject to change with no recourse." :))

As I understand it, there are continuing services that some developers using older versions may subscribe to/pay for and to continue using the new evolution of those same services... they gotta sign on to the new license.

much lolz will be had by allz


This is just developers getting shafted by the same SAAS mentality their gamer customers have been bent over the table for over YEARS of SAAS abuse.

sympathy /0

gg /1

What it really may say is that Unity is hurting.

I've also heard mutterings that the "newish?" Unity CEO/CFO/Whatever is functionally nonfunctional in terms of their market savvy or leadership abilities, so this could be their push and not something done with full consensus. Ol' Muskie Disease, maybe?

Anyway, today is a slow day so the drama is cheap entertainment. :)
Morkonan Sep 12, 2023 @ 5:14pm 
Note:

https://businessmodelanalyst.com/unity-business-model/

According to this, Unity has over 2 million active monthly "users." I assume that means devs/wannabe-devs potentially producing installable products...

That's "yuge" in terms of potential exploitation. It would "seem like" "A GREAT IDEA ™" to leverage that number of active users/devs/installable-potentials by... charging per install.

One dude cranking out a "Fight The Furry" game could potentially upsell hundreds of installations and certainly thousands over the course of years... That's big, even if it's only a few "cents." If a good many of those monthly users cause several hundred installations to occur, even if that's multiple installs for their own users of a game/engine product, that's Unity getting other people to earn money for them from... yet other people outside those person's control.

Vending-Machine Pyramid Scheme Business Model

:)

Don't like a Unity game dev? Just keep... reinstalling their game. Fifteen cents PER INSTALL...

PS: Yeah, THAT part could cause lawsuits. I haven't a clue how they intend to force that beyond the bounds of the shopping cart... Send out "bills?" For stuff the recipient didn't do?
Astasia Sep 12, 2023 @ 7:04pm 
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Originally posted by Morkonan:
One dude cranking out a "Fight The Furry" game could potentially upsell hundreds of installations and certainly thousands over the course of years... That's big, even if it's only a few "cents."

It doesn't apply to them. This is actually a good change for small devs. The free version of Unity used to have a limit of $100,000 in annual sales, any more than that and they would have to pay for a pro subscription which is $2000 per year. That limit has been raised to $200,000 a year, if the game earns less than that then they don't pay Unity anything for "installs" and can continue to use the engine for free. This mechanic only kicks in if a game is earning a large amount of revenue per year, for the free version of Unity it needs to be earning over $200,000 in the last 12 months with more than 200,000 installs, if it hits both of those thresholds then installs after that point start to cost $0.15 each, but it means they can keep using the free version Unity instead of being forced to upgrade. Likewise with the pro version of unity which has to earn more than $1,000,000 in the last 12 months before the install fee kicks in. Very few indie games are hitting these numbers, so this is not at all a case of Unity trying to cash in on the millions of micro devs making tiny games.

As far as larger games like RimWorld, I'm not even sure RimWorld is pulling in $1 mil in revenue every 12 months at this point, and if the install fee becomes noticeable Ludeon can upgrade from pro/enterprise to the industry version which has no install fee and only costs around $5k per year instead of $2k per year. So I don't think this is really going to affect Ludeon much if at all.

It's certainly not going to affect the Cult of the Lamb devs, I'm sure that tweet was a joke.
Chαsε Sep 12, 2023 @ 8:18pm 
How will this effect the game and mods long term, I was planning on getting it on discount but what if the game and mods are dead in the next few months.
Astasia Sep 12, 2023 @ 9:03pm 
It's not going to have any real effect if any. At most I'd say the chances of the next DLC being another $25 one instead of $20 is a little higher. It's entirely unrelated to modding.
Rave Pathfinder. Sep 12, 2023 @ 10:11pm 
Their greed vrs how well the treat their fat whales. Its like a game of racket ball. One bad swing could get the ball twisted in their side of the court.
Over9000Cats (Banned) Sep 12, 2023 @ 11:01pm 
So have you completely rewritten the game from scratch in another engine yet Tynan?
neock Sep 13, 2023 @ 12:08am 
thing is, this new unity thing is going to include some of nintendo's games... and anyone who pisses off that company is going to meet Cerberus lmao
even a broken clock is right twice a day... and this is likly to be nintendo's time to do some good for the gaming world
Ann☆゚.*・。 Sep 13, 2023 @ 12:43am 
doesn't seem to affect much, considering games like rimworld already have to pay for plans in order to release and continue development. revenues should far outweight their unity cost
unity is a professional tool for developers, not garry's mod that you'd rather pray it gets discounted by 90%. if you think you can earn big money just by using tool that cost nothing and armed with coffee and determination, you must be smoking hard to hallucinate that.
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Date Posted: Sep 12, 2023 @ 3:52pm
Posts: 210