Combat Extended

[Tam]

Whats your opinion of this mod ?

Is it poorly balanced and makes early game trivial or do you like it ?
Maybe you like slow vanilla combat and don't like CE for some reason ? Please share your opinion.

[Kane526]

Originally posted by Get Donked On:

Originally posted by Tamm:

Thats not possible

Normal marine armor has 106% sharp armor the pila has pila has 10% penetration.

so you get 106-10%= 96% so altho rare there is a 4% chance the dice decides your armor does nothing and if it hits the kidney it could indeed 1 shot the kidney that has 15 hp with its full 25dmg but this would require you to wear cloth clothing on your skin layer for it to happpen so it is statistically and in practice fairly impossible but it could indeed happen so not impossible just highly unlikely

Dont' forget that's also merely a 4% chance for FULL damage, along with a 48% chance of half damage and 48% chance for no damage. This means that roughly half of all your attacks will still somehow hurt the person wearing the armor, even though all that is happening is you are attacking a man wearing a tank with a sharp metal stick.

[Kane526]

Originally posted by Adison:

Originally posted by Tamm:

Whats your opinion of this mod ?

Is it poorly balanced and makes early game trivial or do you like it ?
Maybe you like slow vanilla combat and don't like CE for some reason ? Please share your opinion.

try it one time delete it already shoot & run at same time to cheat for me

I dont know what your are trying to say. Are you saying you can shoot and run at the same time? Because you can't. CE doesnt do that, that's a different mod.

[whatamidoing]

Originally posted by Kane526:

Originally posted by whatamidoing:

It's another "I hate RNG" and "I massively overestimate how effectively Joe Schmoe, Urbworld Drone can use a firearm" post.
Vanilla combat doesn't aim to be "crazy and absurd." It utilizes RNG, but it's not purely random. Equipment absolutely does matter, but so do things like cover, positioning, and sheer quantity. Do what is fun for you, but don't lie about vanilla combat.

I have to disagree here. 50 Squirrels overwhelming and devouring a space marine is both crazy and absurd. Even if power armor isnt real, we can clearly deduce the man is covered head to toe in very durable metal. Squirrels can't chew through steel plate and advanced kevlar weave, so I imagine whatever the armor is would be better. While skill and gear alters the numbers in Vanilla, you have to remember that you can still miss in CE. If you have 3 skill in shooting you will not hit ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, it goes both ways, remember that.

You only have to read the descriptions of any power armor to tell they aren't fully-covered. Recon armor is light, marine armor has vulnerable joint sections, cataphract armor is still vulnerable to well-placed shots. These are 12kg space squirrels, and it's nearly impossible for any squirrel attack to not be blunted or deflected by even normal-quality marine armor. It's also important as part of the game's balancing. Being able to nullify threats with just simple gear is not balanced.

[Get Donked On]

Originally posted by Kane526:

Originally posted by Get Donked On:

Normal marine armor has 106% sharp armor the pila has pila has 10% penetration.

so you get 106-10%= 96% so altho rare there is a 4% chance the dice decides your armor does nothing and if it hits the kidney it could indeed 1 shot the kidney that has 15 hp with its full 25dmg but this would require you to wear cloth clothing on your skin layer for it to happpen so it is statistically and in practice fairly impossible but it could indeed happen so not impossible just highly unlikely

Dont' forget that's also merely a 4% chance for FULL damage, along with a 48% chance of half damage and 48% chance for no damage. This means that roughly half of all your attacks will still somehow hurt the person wearing the armor, even though all that is happening is you are attacking a man wearing a tank with a sharp metal stick.

Im aware yes but 12.5 dmg isnt enough to destroy a kidney hence not relevant for the dude i was talking to. Altho it is kinda painfull that you could roll bad and that same 4% pila could one shot your heart for an instant kill.


But ye you forget marine armor in vanilla for some reason has em running around bare foot and without gloves and that tynan used incredibly arbitrary numbers to assign to animals with very little tought as the smallest any animal can be is 1/5 the size of a human due to that being the cap. almost like the numbers are assigned with very little tought and probably shouldnt be used to justify the univereses lore (elephants in rw weigh 250 kilos wich is still 10 times too little compmared to a small forrest elephant wich is still 2700 kilos on the low end and can reach about 6000kg on the high end).

And yes gear will nullify threats up to a point but getting swarmed by 50 squirels is still bad for you as they dmg your armor wich lowers how much it protects in CE after 75% and also has modeling for weaker areas around the arms and eye area for even power armor. Still endgame armor does give you more leeway by a large margin. the armor systems both have their issues for example armor at 2%hp in rw that basically about to fall of your body still gives its full protection. from a gamey arcade point of view thats fine but its not what everyone likes either

[null]

Basically, I don't play Rimworld for its shooter qualities or its weapon strategies. Reading the walls of text of people who insist on the qualities of this or that mod, I get the impression that you've forgotten what Rimworld's primary quality is.

[Tam]

Originally posted by Get Donked On:

Originally posted by Tamm:

Thats not possible

Normal marine armor has 106% sharp armor the pila has pila has 10% penetration.

so you get 106-10%= 96% so altho rare there is a 4% chance the dice decides your armor does nothing and if it hits the kidney it could indeed 1 shot the kidney that has 15 hp with its full 25dmg but this would require you to wear cloth clothing on your skin layer for it to happpen so it is statistically and in practice fairly impossible but it could indeed happen so not impossible just highly unlikely

For all of my 2000 hours i have never seen any tribal hobo that blows off my marine+ fighter organs, only in meele fight against Empire.
Mass stabbed yes, but never solo.

[Tam]

Originally posted by Kane526:

even though all that is happening is you are attacking a man wearing a tank with a sharp metal stick.

It's your assumption that marine armour is a tank armour, meanwhile its not.

[Get Donked On]

Originally posted by Tamm:

Originally posted by Get Donked On:

Normal marine armor has 106% sharp armor the pila has pila has 10% penetration.

so you get 106-10%= 96% so altho rare there is a 4% chance the dice decides your armor does nothing and if it hits the kidney it could indeed 1 shot the kidney that has 15 hp with its full 25dmg but this would require you to wear cloth clothing on your skin layer for it to happpen so it is statistically and in practice fairly impossible but it could indeed happen so not impossible just highly unlikely

For all of my 2000 hours i have never seen any tribal hobo that blows off my marine+ fighter organs, only in meele fight with Empire.
Mass stabbed yes, but never solo.

its what the math says but as i said the skin layer armor still matters hence that 4% chance can be completly negated by anything thats not cloth with even a little bit of sharp armor and any quality above normal wouldnt have this issue either vs pila. as I said in practice unless you are trying to be stupid and are using cloth for your skin layer on combat pawns it is basically not gonna happen but its not completly impossible as you stated previously. take it or leave it is all i can say. (also pila are ranged sir please)

[Kane526]

Originally posted by Tamm:

Originally posted by Kane526:

even though all that is happening is you are attacking a man wearing a tank with a sharp metal stick.

It's your assumption that marine armour is a tank armour, meanwhile its not.

If you are taking that literally then I really need to stop typing like that. It isnt actually tank armor, but it's obvious far more durable than any personal protection we have, and a military standard plate carrier can resist a lot of damage, especially if it is rifle grade. A knife or sword should not hurt someone with a vest if the area struck is protected. This armor covers far more of the body and is obviously made of a superior material. So if you are trying to poke holes in my stance by saying "Its not a tank lol", then Im sorry to say it still stands. Its a durable, high quality, better than steel material. If you cant go through steel, you cant go through this. Full stop.

[whatamidoing]

Originally posted by Kane526:

Originally posted by Tamm:

It's your assumption that marine armour is a tank armour, meanwhile its not.

If you are taking that literally then I really need to stop typing like that. It isnt actually tank armor, but it's obvious far more durable than any personal protection we have, and a military standard plate carrier can resist a lot of damage, especially if it is rifle grade. A knife or sword should not hurt someone with a vest if the area struck is protected. This armor covers far more of the body and is obviously made of a superior material. So if you are trying to poke holes in my stance by saying "Its not a tank lol", then Im sorry to say it still stands. Its a durable, high quality, better than steel material. If you cant go through steel, you cant go through this. Full stop.

But it's not. It's marginally more protective than a flak vest.

[Kane526]

Originally posted by whatamidoing:

Originally posted by Kane526:

I have to disagree here. 50 Squirrels overwhelming and devouring a space marine is both crazy and absurd. Even if power armor isnt real, we can clearly deduce the man is covered head to toe in very durable metal. Squirrels can't chew through steel plate and advanced kevlar weave, so I imagine whatever the armor is would be better. While skill and gear alters the numbers in Vanilla, you have to remember that you can still miss in CE. If you have 3 skill in shooting you will not hit ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, it goes both ways, remember that.

You only have to read the descriptions of any power armor to tell they aren't fully-covered. Recon armor is light, marine armor has vulnerable joint sections, cataphract armor is still vulnerable to well-placed shots. These are 12kg space squirrels, and it's nearly impossible for any squirrel attack to not be blunted or deflected by even normal-quality marine armor. It's also important as part of the game's balancing. Being able to nullify threats with just simple gear is not balanced.

"Vulnerable" does not mean "without protection". CE actually employs this by having certain parts of the armor, such as the neck, limbs, hands/feet, etc, have reduced armor values to represent this. But a vulnerability does not mean a complete and utter lack of protection. The armor clearly utilizes a bodyglove of sorts, assuming this is some sort of advanced fabric of something similar to kevlar, it's still good enough that most primitive weapons should have no affect. Because it's hard to stab or bite through kevlar, so surely these advanced suits of armor would improve on such a technology. Also, you continue to forget the "nullification" that you speak of goes both ways. It's also not like you start with a full set of marine armor. CE's steady ramp up of performance for gear creates tangible advancements, while imposing unique Challenges. For instance, if you are still using industrial protection rated at 12mm RHA in CE, what will you do when a Centipede Gunner using 7.62x51mm AP-I decides to turn your colonist into a fine mist? Just like in reality, when you have fully automatic weapon, a large, murderous dog (A Warg) wouldnt be much of a threat anymore would it? Unless it suddenly developed armor piercing claws and fangs your chest would be protected by your trusty vest, saving your organs...your limbs on the other hand are not immune to being shredded. Also, in CE, all pawns will attempt to attack weakpoints. Keep that in mind as well.

[Kane526]

Originally posted by whatamidoing:

Originally posted by Kane526:

If you are taking that literally then I really need to stop typing like that. It isnt actually tank armor, but it's obvious far more durable than any personal protection we have, and a military standard plate carrier can resist a lot of damage, especially if it is rifle grade. A knife or sword should not hurt someone with a vest if the area struck is protected. This armor covers far more of the body and is obviously made of a superior material. So if you are trying to poke holes in my stance by saying "Its not a tank lol", then Im sorry to say it still stands. Its a durable, high quality, better than steel material. If you cant go through steel, you cant go through this. Full stop.

But it's not. It's marginally more protective than a flak vest.

Again, this is video game numbers. Do you honestly think a full set of plate armor, which has 2/3rds the sharp protection of a flak vest in game, could actually stop a bullet? Because guess what, it can't.

[Kane526]

Getting stabbed by a RW knife hurts more than a RW pistol, are you going to start telling me getting stabbed is more dangerous than being shot? CE tries to make the armor system make more sense, and with that, that means applying logic to the values of penetration and protection.

[Get Donked On]

Originally posted by Kane526:

Getting stabbed by a RW knife hurts more than a RW pistol, are you going to start telling me getting stabbed is more dangerous than being shot? CE tries to make the armor system make more sense, and with that, that means applying logic to the values of penetration and protection.

knife dmg is a bad example they do a lot of dmg they just suck at penetrating good armor irl if you meant penetration then yes thats whacky

[Kane526]

Originally posted by Get Donked On:

Originally posted by Kane526:

Getting stabbed by a RW knife hurts more than a RW pistol, are you going to start telling me getting stabbed is more dangerous than being shot? CE tries to make the armor system make more sense, and with that, that means applying logic to the values of penetration and protection.

knife dmg is a bad example they do a lot of dmg they just suck at penetrating good armor irl if you meant penetration then yes thats a lil dumber

Btw, the armor value for a flak vest is 12mm while Marine armor is 24mm for the torso while certain parts like the arms are about 16mm i believe. Seems like a huge difference right? Initially yes, but at this point in time marine armor is still vulnerable to certain industrial age high-caliber full power cartridges designed for armor piercing, and armor in CE has it's armor value decay as it becomes more damaged, starting at 80% item HP and decaying linearly. So you arent invincible as your armor plates will be slowly degraded by the wear and tear of some many rounds, and larger bullets can actually pack big enough punches to leave bruises even if they cannot pierce due to sheer kinetic force.