Is it just me, or are Sanguophages... kinda worthless?

[EnderswordYT]

I mean, sure, sanguophages have some amazing genes, especially the archite ones, and I don't mind Hemogenic, -2 hemogen per day, when a hemogen pack gives +20 is not bad. The problem? Hemogen drain. This one gene single-handedly makes sanguophages essentially worthless for me. Honestly, I would not mind if there were, like, two variants of sanguophages, one with hemogen drain and more good genes, one without hemogen drain and with less good genes. Okay, I think I should explain why I hate hemogen drain so much. -40% of total blood volume is a lot to cause to one of your colonists, and it leaves them very vulnreable to any injuries that cause blood loss. Now, you might say "but you can just extract the packs from prisoners", and that's true, belive me, I thought about it, but my defense usually leaves, like, one or two people alive after any given raid. Two people would be enough to feed any sanguophage indefinately, but now there's a risk of prison breaks, which the aforementioned prisoners may die in, and if I got just one prisoner, a 40% blood loss recovers in about 3 days, while a standard sanguophage can consume that hemogen pack for just two days worth of hemogen.

Also, yes, I know you can just extract all of sanguophage's organs and they'll remain alive, but my current colony has an ideology preventing organ harvest.

If there's something I missed, or some maths I did wrong, please let me know, I have an otherwise amazing sanguophage as prisoner in my colony right now and I'd love to recruit her.

[Tactical Drongo]

for your own game you could make such a variation with less drain and less genes
would not be included into the regular start but that can be modified too

the trick with sanguophages is, I think, haven't played them myself tbh, to have a cult of followers and possibly slavers that can support, boost and supply your small number of overpowered pawns

basically you have to build an economy to supply them and they work better in bigger colonies

[marcusaddamsson]

My last Sanguophage colony, I mostly used prisoners... especially since you can automate it, via prisoner hemogen extract. At first I was rather paranoid about keeping blood on hand... but it's not that big of a deal, honestly. I only had two vamps, and three/four prisoners were easily supplying them, and creating a surplus as well.

If you really wanna make it easy sauce, make sure your prisoners have no legs and their beds are really close to the 'nexus' of traffic.

As for the value of a sanguophage... well... they're friggin' nearly game-breakingly good in combat. The only thing that really slows 'em down is fire, and losing fingers/toes. Everything else is merely a flesh wound. Their coagulate power is insanely useful for battlefield wounds; "ooooh... eight different major cuts? zap. done." With their jump ability, you can have 'em wear shield belts and still jump behind the enemy mechs and instantly and directly attack them. I had a sanguophage mechanitor on my last run... and she was a beast.

Like I said... the only real issue is the fire thing. If they can even see fire... they can completely break.

[EnderswordYT]

Originally posted by marcusaddamsson:

My last Sanguophage colony, I mostly used prisoners... especially since you can automate it, via prisoner hemogen extract. At first I was rather paranoid about keeping blood on hand... but it's not that big of a deal, honestly. I only had two vamps, and three/four prisoners were easily supplying them, and creating a surplus as well.

If you really wanna make it easy sauce, make sure your prisoners have no legs and their beds are really close to the 'nexus' of traffic.

As for the value of a sanguophage... well... they're friggin' nearly game-breakingly good in combat. The only thing that really slows 'em down is fire, and losing fingers/toes. Everything else is merely a flesh wound. Their coagulate power is insanely useful for battlefield wounds; "ooooh... eight different major cuts? zap. done." With their jump ability, you can have 'em wear shield belts and still jump behind the enemy mechs and instantly and directly attack them. I had a sanguophage mechanitor on my last run... and she was a beast.

Like I said... the only real issue is the fire thing. If they can even see fire... they can completely break.

I'll keep that in mind, thanks. With the "prisoners have no legs" thing, I usually am rather humane with my prisoners (ignore those mutliple High Subcore requiring Mechanoids running around my base), but I'll think about it. I'll also make sure to convert everybody to my Transhumanist ideloigion so they can eat nutrient paste without mood drops.

[marcusaddamsson]

Heh. I get that... In my defense, didn't remove their legs on purpose. The issue is if you keep in one room, which I was... they're gonna jailbreak. And when they do, they're facing one or more vamps. Even when I would purposely drop the plasteel spear before engaging, there's just gonna be injuries on the their part. The only organ I extract that entire run was to replace a lung... but I lost several of my prisoners to attrition. One poor piggy, she was armless and blind at the end.

I guess theoretically, you could build them a palace to live in, and they'd be happy enough to stay as prisoners. Draining colonists just isn't realistic, long-term.

[EnderswordYT]

Originally posted by marcusaddamsson:

Heh. I get that... In my defense, didn't remove their legs on purpose. The issue is if you keep in one room, which I was... they're gonna jailbreak. And when they do, they're facing one or more vamps. Even when I would purposely drop the plasteel spear before engaging, there's just gonna be injuries on the their part. The only organ I extract that entire run was to replace a lung... but I lost several of my prisoners to attrition. One poor piggy, she was armless and blind at the end.

I guess theoretically, you could build them a palace to live in, and they'd be happy enough to stay as prisoners. Draining colonists just isn't realistic, long-term.

Yeah, with the prison... I'll have to really remodel mine if I want prisoners to stay in it for longer periods. I'll probably just turn one of my prison barracks into a cell, and I'll think about the rest later, 'cause my giant, very impressive (apparentaly) prison barracks intended for short-term holding of up to 10 prisoners... may actually be very bad for holding one person for extended periods. I know, what a surprise.

[EnderswordYT]

Oh, one more qestion, kinda related, kinda not, is there any way (including dev mode) to remove a Joywire? The sanguophage I want to recruit has one and the minus 20% brain efficiency really bothers me.

[marcusaddamsson]

Yea, should be possible (never done it tho). Just look on that pawn's health tab. You should be able to 'extract joywire' as a operation.

[Astasia]

You don't really have to worry about prison breaks if you are constantly draining their blood. It will have much less frequently due to them being slowed by bloodloss, and when it does happen they will be too slow to get anywhere and will drop pretty quickly from any damage. Also prisoners do not follow the enemy death on down mechanic, so if you take an armored colonist (that doesn't have extra melee damage genes) and tell them to punch the prisoner with their bare hands or use the blunt part of a melee weapon, the chance of that prisoner dying is extremely low. You could also use something like a machine pistol for prison defense if you don't care about scars, that has an even lower chance of killing a prisoner and you don't have to worry about minor bruising or armor durability loss on your warden.

Just design a few small individual prison rooms with a single door to store your blood donors in, keeping them around long term just isn't an issue. The more prisoners you have the higher the chance of prison breaks though, even if they aren't in the same room, so keeping a few vampires fed is easy, trying to keep a colony of 20+ of them going though means you will probably have to start removing legs.

Joywires can not be removed without mods or dev mode. Turn on god mode and open their health tab, you might see an icon to click to remove it, I don't recall offhand how it works unmodded. I usually use the Character Editor mod to do things like that.

[EnderswordYT]

Originally posted by Astasia:

You don't really have to worry about prison breaks if you are constantly draining their blood. It will have much less frequently due to them being slowed by bloodloss, and when it does happen they will be too slow to get anywhere and will drop pretty quickly from any damage. Also prisoners do not follow the enemy death on down mechanic, so if you take an armored colonist (that doesn't have extra melee damage genes) and tell them to punch the prisoner with their bare hands or use the blunt part of a melee weapon, the chance of that prisoner dying is extremely low. You could also use something like a machine pistol for prison defense if you don't care about scars, that has an even lower chance of killing a prisoner and you don't have to worry about minor bruising or armor durability loss on your warden.

Just design a few small individual prison rooms with a single door to store your blood donors in, keeping them around long term just isn't an issue. The more prisoners you have the higher the chance of prison breaks though, even if they aren't in the same room, so keeping a few vampires fed is easy, trying to keep a colony of 20+ of them going though means you will probably have to start removing legs.

Great, thanks. I think I never actually thought that blood loss' effects can be used for slowing down prison breaks.

[marcusaddamsson]

Yea... and consider using wasters if you can. They'll be comin' down off the yayo for 30 days, give 'em a hit... and they're good to be deficient for another 30 days. Odd how the most polluted blood is the easiest to get... hehe.

[qualified turtle ship]

Don't want prison breaks, but want to treat them well, and not cut off their legs?

https://rimworldwiki.com/wiki/Genes#Violence
Dead calm
**Will never prison break**
^this is what you want your perma prisoners to have.
If you have the gene banked you could gene mod it onto your prisoners. OR you can find it naturally on genies.


All Genies have this gene
https://rimworldwiki.com/wiki/Genies
Genies sometimes show up in raids, caravan/settlement slaves, and can reliably be obtained via ancient danger raiding-- eg settling+abandoning tiles for the sole purpose of raiding their ancient danger loot)

[Wasted]

Sanguophages are freaking awesome man and very strong. they have a coagulate ability that instantly stops bleeding on other pawns even enemies, a long jump, and a spike melee attack. amazing melee fighters and the strongest xenotype. I have only used 1 at a time and find that providing enough hemogen is pretty easy and low cost for the benefits.

I will often have my sang coagulate almost all my wounded during a battle. I can also still capture enemy pawns easily even if they had low time to live, use coagulate to stop the bleeding, and no need to field tend to capture. especially useful when out on caravan raids.

its just you, Sanguophages are NOT kinda worthless!

. the main downside imo is Sanguophages panic near fire. so keep that in mind

[EnderswordYT]

Originally posted by tearfang:

Don't want prison breaks, but want to treat them well, and not cut off their legs?

https://rimworldwiki.com/wiki/Genes#Violence
Dead calm
**Will never prison break**
^this is what you want your perma prisoners to have.
If you have the gene banked you could gene mod it onto your prisoners. OR you can find it naturally on genies.


All Genies have this gene
https://rimworldwiki.com/wiki/Genies
Genies sometimes show up in raids, caravan/settlement slaves, and can reliably be obtained via ancient danger raiding-- eg settling+abandoning tiles for the sole purpose of raiding their ancient danger loot)

Oh, so dead calm DOES affect prison breaks? Great to know, I have one in my gene banks.

[Laurie]

They are essential for your battles since they cant be killed. Just be sure to give them head protection and not fire fully automatic otherwise their head will always be above cover.

Just like real life, having your head blown off in an explosion causes a major mood debuff.

[Jackochainsaw]

I think the drain is kind of important. Otherwise the sanguophages would be overpowered and would unbalance the game. It adds a bit of strategy being aware that they go into hibernation every so often. It also gives you a chance to collect more blood for them off "willing" donors.

You can remove the drain altogether by tinkering with their genetics, you just have to wait for the cooldown to tinker again or you will kill them.

The sanguophage in my colony saved the day twice. They are worth it.