Thoughts

[posd23]

What are peoples thoughts on the Vanilla Expanded that brings in the Warcaskets?

[di eshor ribly]

They're.... a thing, for sure.

Pros:
No degradation, a suit will last you a life time
Makes pawns tanky*
Warcasket weapons bring a lot of thump
Painless pawns (no pain shock)

Cons:
Pawns can only fight, not work without another mod
Painless pawns (they more often than not just die on their feet)
Social fights are extremely dangerous for non warcasketed pawns
No utility gear allowed (shield belt, orbital targeters, lances)

*Sometimes you get a fun bug where your casket provides 0 armor. Expensive wet tissue paper caskets is more accurate in this case.

The rumsuit and other pirate themed goodies are amusing, but really have no impact on the mod besides cosmetics.

[boytype]

Vanilla Factions Expanded: Pirates.
IMO it is one of the most OP and unbalanced of all of the VE mods, possibly only next to Vanilla Factions Expanded: Ancients. Both as a hostile NPC faction and as a playable faction, they dramatically alter the balance of combat in the game and in many ways trivialize a lot of the content.

Cherry Picker has a very hard time, in my experience, removing the Warcaskets from the mod however, so you are either playing with them or not using the Pirates faction or any of the other content included.

[Paroe]

Originally posted by di eshor ribly:

They're.... a thing, for sure.

Pros:
No degradation, a suit will last you a life time
Makes pawns tanky*
Warcasket weapons bring a lot of thump
Painless pawns (no pain shock)

Cons:
Pawns can only fight, not work without another mod
Painless pawns (they more often than not just die on their feet)
Social fights are extremely dangerous for non warcasketed pawns
No utility gear allowed (shield belt, orbital targeters, lances)

*Sometimes you get a fun bug where your casket provides 0 armor. Expensive wet tissue paper caskets is more accurate in this case.

The rumsuit and other pirate themed goodies are amusing, but really have no impact on the mod besides cosmetics.

To expand on this...
Warcaskets are generally weaker than power armor of the same tech level, because theyre intended to be "cheap alternatives" with serious drawbacks.

Also, they can equip utility gear last i checked. If they cant, thats a fairly recent change.

[Paroe]

Originally posted by boytype:

Vanilla Factions Expanded: Pirates.
IMO it is one of the most OP and unbalanced of all of the VE mods, possibly only next to Vanilla Factions Expanded: Ancients. Both as a hostile NPC faction and as a playable faction, they dramatically alter the balance of combat in the game and in many ways trivialize a lot of the content.

Cherry Picker has a very hard time, in my experience, removing the Warcaskets from the mod however, so you are either playing with them or not using the Pirates faction or any of the other content included.

You realize that warcaskets are weaker than power armor of the same tier except for the fan add ons, right?
The benefit of them is they stop pawns from going down due to pain so they fight till they die, and they have huge drawbacks in that they cant do most work types.

warcaskets are hardly OP. Theyre a cheap, interesting option to make disposable shock troops.

[whatamidoing]

Mildly annoyed someone asked me to make a mod compatible with them so I had to work that out. Simple thing, but still annoyed I had to download it. Also, I find the fact that particular mod was made as an advertisement pretty gross.

[boytype]

Originally posted by Paroe:

warcaskets are hardly OP. Theyre a cheap, interesting option to make disposable shock troops.

You are welcome to that opinion. I disagree.
The fact that Warcaskets are so cheap and easy to acquire is exactly what makes them OP. Their stats are also comparable to that of power armor. They are not considerably weaker in any appreciable way.

If you are using them, you can basically very quickly and cheaply have an entire team of combat pawns in very strong armor, with instant Painless traits, and who can wield specialized melee and ranged weapons that are basically the equivalent of end game weapons for damage. All without having the reach the point in the tech tree or acquiring the resources needed to actually have access to end game armor or weapons.

So IMO, super cheap and early access to basically end game armor and weapon equivilants = OP

[Paroe]

Originally posted by boytype:

Originally posted by Paroe:

warcaskets are hardly OP. Theyre a cheap, interesting option to make disposable shock troops.

You are welcome to that opinion. I disagree.
The fact that Warcaskets are so cheap and easy to acquire is exactly what makes them OP. Their stats are also comparable to that of power armor. They are not considerably weaker in any appreciable way.

If you are using them, you can basically very quickly and cheaply have an entire team of combat pawns in very strong armor, with instant Painless traits, and who can wield specialized melee and ranged weapons that are basically the equivalent of end game weapons for damage. All without having the reach the point in the tech tree or acquiring the resources needed to actually have access to end game armor or weapons.

So IMO, super cheat and early access to basically end game armor and weapon equivilants = OP

I mean.. Theyre the same tech level though? And while warcaskets are easier to get, you still give up a ton for them AND you cant undo it, either, without ruining a pawn.
You cant:
A) Cant wear clothes with them (This means no gloves, boots, scarves, shirts, socks, etc)
B) dont have access to most accessories (No rings, no baubles)
D) Have a lower movement speed

But if your argument is purely numbers and not context youre quite right. Warcaskets are quite strong on their own, and cheap, compared to real power armor.

[boytype]

Originally posted by Paroe:

You cant:
A) Cant wear clothes with them (This means no gloves, boots, scarves, shirts, socks, etc)
B) dont have access to most accessories (No rings, no baubles)

Bro, how modded is your game lol
None of that even exists in Rimworld.
No hate, but damb. I definitely didnt take into consideration things that do not exist in the game.
(EDIT: It says shirts, I did not see that. Those do exist)

Originally posted by Paroe:

But if your argument is purely numbers and not context youre quite right. Warcaskets are quite strong on their own, and cheap, compared to real power armor.

Yeah, that is how I measure if something is balanced with vanilla or not. If something provides similar or better numbers to a vanilla item, armor or weapon for less research and less resources, that thing is probably unbalanced or OP IMO.

Im not saying "Dont Use it" or "Its a cheat", I am just saying *I* dont use it and think that its not well balanced.

[Paroe]

Originally posted by boytype:

Originally posted by Paroe:

You cant:
A) Cant wear clothes with them (This means no gloves, boots, scarves, shirts, socks, etc)
B) dont have access to most accessories (No rings, no baubles)

Bro, how modded is your game lol
None of that even exists in Rimworld.
No hate, but damb. I definitely didnt take into consideration things that do not exist in the game.

Originally posted by Paroe:

But if your argument is purely numbers and not context youre quite right. Warcaskets are quite strong on their own, and cheap, compared to real power armor.

Yeah, that is how I measure if something is balanced with vanilla or not. If something provides similar or better numbers to a vanilla item, armor or weapon for less research and less resources, that thing is probably unbalanced or OP IMO.

Youre right! How silly of me. Imagine thinking people use mods. Haha.
With warcaskets you cant wear clothing that goes on the... Head, ears, eyes, nose, jaw, waist, or neck! Cant forget that hands and feet dont exist on the rim. Or how large an increase to quality of life those extra pieces of clothing are, modded or not.

Your metric for whats unbalanced is so... incredibly biased. Without taking into account the negatives and positives, its just prejudice and needless hate.
Would you prefer it if warcaskets required recon armor research first? To get a weaker end product?
Its a side-OPTION. Not a must have for progression, like much of VE. If you want a super pared down "nothing but stuff i use" mod then boy howdy your mod list must be sad.

[whatamidoing]

Who wouldn't want a "nothing but stuff I use" mod list? There's zero benefit from bloat you don't use.

[boytype]

Originally posted by Paroe:

Your metric for whats unbalanced is so... incredibly biased. Without taking into account the negatives and positives, its just prejudice and needless hate.

No hate, I just choose not to use things that dramatically alter the balance of the game unless it is the point of the individual playthrough.

Originally posted by Paroe:

Its a side-OPTION. Not a must have for progression, like much of VE. If you want a super pared down "nothing but stuff i use" mod then boy howdy your mod list must be sad.

I do have a fairly conservative mod list that does not include anything that is not going to be used or focused on in the current playthrough, and I do often use Cherry Picker to remove parts of mods that I wont be using.

I am sure someone that got gloves, boots, scarves, socks, rings and baubles would probably find it boring lol

In the other active thread at the top of the forum right now discussing VE, you can see my take on the Vanilla Expanded series of mods in general and that I currently have 4 active in my mod load order; Vanilla Base Generation Expanded, Vanilla Events Expanded, Vanilla Achievements Expanded, and Vanilla Persona Weapons Expanded.

Originally posted by whatamidoing:

Who wouldn't want a "nothing but stuff I use" mod list? There's zero benefit from bloat you don't use.

That is basically my exact thinking as well.

[di eshor ribly]

Originally posted by Paroe:

Also, they can equip utility gear last i checked. If they cant, thats a fairly recent change.

It may also just be extremely outdated info on my end. I haven't played with VFE: Pirates in about a year. When I gave it a go on a few playthroughs the casket took up every equipment slot except weapons, and I also ran into the 0 armor bug a lot, so I stopped using it.

When it worked though it was pretty nice.

[Paroe]

Originally posted by whatamidoing:

Who wouldn't want a "nothing but stuff I use" mod list? There's zero benefit from bloat you don't use.

Options. Enemies can use them, too.
Its always fun when a tribal comes by with a legendary tiger fur tribalwear for example, or when i get a raid of space elves using charge bows.

But i recognize right now that im being needlessly aggressive and should probably stop that.

[posd23]

So what im seeing is they have their ups and downs an alot of people seemingly have ALOT of downs ill give em a run here soon enough XD

[Paroe]

Originally posted by posd23:

So what im seeing is they have their ups and downs an alot of people seemingly have ALOT of downs ill give em a run here soon enough XD

Good luck!
give'em a go with reconditioning pod so you can solve their inherent mood issue, and give them fun stuff like jogger and tough to boot!