Ideology for Cave Dwellers

[Yxklyx]

Playing a Prosletyzer/Tunneler at the moment with fluid ideologies. I looked at the Darkness meme but it appears to only add an Eclipse buff over what I have now so it seems pointless. Are there any hidden features with Darkness? Can I have 2 Mining specialists if I take it? Any other memes/precepts that would make for an interesting cave dweller game. Note that I have major threats off but Charity set to maximum (which means I need to accept crazy quests sometimes).

[HunterSilver]

You can have as many specialists as you want, there's no limit on that.

I haven't done a cave dweller ideology personally but I've heard that they're incredibly powerful, as you can essentially negate all darkness and blindness penalties and absolutely tear through things underground. Caves also make for exceptionally temperature stable bases, so you can cheaply grow mushrooms year round and your colonists adore eating them.

[Astasia]

Yes the darkness meme removes all penalties from being in darkness (except surgery success) and provides massive combat bonuses in darkness, like in a cave. Darkness and Tunneler are a perfect match for each other. Of course darkness also makes your characters absolutely awful outside during the day, so like caravan missions are pretty rough, there are definitely downsides.

[Yxklyx]

What I meant is that Darkness and Tunneler generally provide the same features. The only difference I see is that Darkness has an added mood bonus for Eclipse while Tunneler has the fungus (and also how they interact with some other memes I think like Blindness). The darkness penalties are removed with a precept that you can enable with either meme so I see little point in having both memes.

[eMYNOCK]

tunneler does not benefit from darklights were darkness does... so you can have a "well lit" base, gain an extra buff for placing darklights and grow mushrooms year round.

and if you don't declare some fungal gravel zones as farm land you can also passively grow timbershrooms.

not to metion... all that tasty bug meat you can get when some bugs decide that you have drilled a tiny bit too deep.

and if you want to be extra cheeky... tunneler, darkness, transhumanist... theres nothing better than mushed shrooms with bugmeat.

[Astasia]

I suppose it is true that you can use the darkness/darklight precepts without the darkness meme, making the meme a bit redundant, as is the case for many of the memes. If you are just looking at what the meme provides and are getting the precepts anyway, then I guess there is no real reason to use the darkness meme and tunneler together as they both unlock mining specialist and the eclipse bonus is pure flavor. There are no other hidden mechanics to the darkness meme.

[Yxklyx]

Thanks for confirming though maybe Darkness has some additional features like Tunneler. With Tunneler you can add a ritual that gives Insect Jelly for instance.

[eMYNOCK]

from a pure RP point of view, your darkness meme shines when you adjust the sleep/work schedule accordingly... pretty much what you would do with a regular "night owl" pawn.

also, form experience, tunnelers don't care about the light, darklight, normal light, its light and thats it.

darkness memes will get a debuff when they are exposed to sun light, normal lights (that counts also for torches) but will get a bonus for darklights and pretty much everything that resolves around night time... or when one of the gazillion mons causes an eclipse.

regarding the jelly, thats overrated and its not always guaranteed that you have a ritual with good or perfect outcome.

btw... a tunneler dislikes "normal" food that is grown under the sun... wich would be pretty much nearly every crop you can plant... except chocolate... and animals.

the darkness meme however is basically just "everyone is a night owl".

[qualified turtle ship]

Darkness meme does 2 things. One minor mood influence and the other major.
(1) Darklight preferred --> mood impact
(2) Combat in Darkness Preferred --> major combat impact

The largest change (mechanically) that darkness does is:
Combat in Darkness Preferred
**Ranged chance to hit +25% in the dark, -20% in the light
Melee hit chance +10% in the dark, -10% in the light
Melee dodge chance +10% in the dark, -10% in the light
^ stats from the wiki:
https://rimworldwiki.com/wiki/Ideoligion#Memes


Those buffs are very significant. The penalty in light is also significant BUT, can be negated. How? Off-sight sunBlocker, they happen sometimes and will persist until you travel to the location and destroy it. If instead you embrace the darkness and never destroy it, the daylight penalties associated with the darkness meme are negated even for a lot of the off-site events-- provided they also happen within the coverage of the sun-blocker, which usually happens.

[The Yeen Queen]

Originally posted by Yxklyx:

What I meant is that Darkness and Tunneler generally provide the same features. The only difference I see is that Darkness has an added mood bonus for Eclipse while Tunneler has the fungus (and also how they interact with some other memes I think like Blindness). The darkness penalties are removed with a precept that you can enable with either meme so I see little point in having both memes.

You....REALLY need to fully read what they do.

[Yxklyx]

I'm playing Tunneler and I have the Darklight Preferred precept which is what gives all the mood impacts. The Darkness meme itself does not give the mood impacts and combat bonuses, the precepts do and you can enable those precept with Tunneler - so except for the Eclipse bonus it's pointless to take both Darkness and Tunneler.

If we forget about that Eclipse bonus, the only difference between Tunneler and Darkness is the fungus. If you want to eat the fungus take Tunneler, otherwise take Darkness but never both.

[The Yeen Queen]

The combat bonus absolutely is NOT part of the darklight precept. Unless you have a mod doing that, that is. It is definitely a part of the Darkness meme.

https://rimworldwiki.com/wiki/Ideoligion#Darkness

https://rimworldwiki.com/wiki/Ideoligion#Lighting

Combat in Darkness is specific to the Darkness meme ( Correction: Blindsight uses it too ), and that's where the combat bonuses/penalties for lighting come from.

[Yxklyx]

Yes you're right that it's not part of Darklight but it's still available to Tunneler:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2895950455

[Astasia]

Originally posted by Night Foxx:

https://rimworldwiki.com/wiki/Ideoligion#Lighting

Combat in Darkness is specific to the Darkness meme ( Correction: Blindsight uses it too ), and that's where the combat bonuses/penalties for lighting come from.

The link you posted there goes to the optional precepts table, they are precepts that can be added by memes but can also be added to any ideology you want barring any exceptions. The exception in this case is you can NOT add Combat in Darkness to a blindness ideology. If you pick the darkness meme it will force that precept, but if you do not have the darkness meme you are free to add the precept to any ideology as long as it doesn't have the blindness meme. It's the same with darklight preferred which is a few entries down on that table.