Do you think turrets are ever going to become relevant again in vanilla combat?

[VoiD]

Just wondering.

They were nerfed a long, long time ago due to exploits using them, this, of course, didn't really help much to avoid the exploits, but it did make them useless for regular gameplay.

The issue with turrets is that

1: They are extremely vulnerable and receive no bonuses from cover
2: They are imobile and have limited range.
3: They explode like ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ nukes.

So if you attempt to use turrets around your outer walls to help with support fire they will probably get destroyed by attackers before they even start firing, and the fact that they are very easy to hit makes this problem even worse, the only practical way to use turrets is by placing them inside of your base/fortifications, with walls at their exact range limit, so they won't get shot by enemies before they can fight back, but, again, due to the nerfs and the fact that they explode, they often create more problems than they help solve.

Do you think they need to be looked at? Specially now that we have mechanitors running around with mechs that are far more powerful than turrets, and mobile too, are the nerfs still "necessary"?

Also, one random idea I had, what if all turrets could return fire at any range?
As in, they still keep their regular range, and will not fire at random targets outside of this range, but once they get attacked, considering they are imobile, they should at least attempt to fire back to defend themselves.

[Narrowmind]

Is it viable to have the turrets a few tiles away from the defenders, to make sure they actually survive the onslaught?

[Hykal]

Originally posted by Ratlegion:

Is it viable to have the turrets a few tiles away from the defenders, to make sure they actually survive the onslaught?

Originally posted by Edmund Greyfox:

https://imgur.com/a/aDbewXZ

Defense in depth.

The barricades won't really do anything to stop turrets from exploding, but yes, just making sure the turrets are far away is trading space for walls.

[Narrowmind]

I was more meaning, having them behind the defensive lines, so the enemy never gets to them. I guess missed shots can still cause cause them to spark and explode, too, and then the defenders will also be in bad shape.

[Hykal]

It's a bigger risk, because you put your best psycaster in front of a slug turret and they get domed. It's safer to use turrets AS cover, and run away if it takes too much damage. Personally I line the walls of my fort with turrets, and have the pawns behind barricades. Spread out the targets, you know.

I think people are overestimating how powerful these explosions are. You have enough time to flee from a grenade, then you have enough time to flee an explosion. If the turret's walls have a door for the pawn to close, even better.

[boytype]

I have many times had an exploding turrets disintegrate a wall and then do damage to the pawns behind that wall.

Pawn | wall | Turret | wall
And when the turrets explodes, the pawn either full on dies or loses limbs.

Do not have CE installed or any combat / explosion / turrets mods.

[Edmund Greyfox]

Originally posted by Hykal:

Originally posted by Ratlegion:

Is it viable to have the turrets a few tiles away from the defenders, to make sure they actually survive the onslaught?

Originally posted by Edmund Greyfox:

https://imgur.com/a/aDbewXZ

Defense in depth.

The barricades won't really do anything to stop turrets from exploding, but yes, just making sure the turrets are far away is trading space for walls.

The barricades aren't there to limit explosions. They are there to provide a little bit of cover from ranged attacks, and one last defense to slow melee units down. If you notice, the outer line of turrets are all spaced out just far enough that when one explode it won't damage any of the others. I don't worry about it in the inner ring, because those almost never take enough damage to explode.

Plus, i like the way it looks. :)

[Hykal]

Yeah, I don't know what to say? That definitely isn't base game behaviour.

A wooden wall 100% protects you even from an antigrain explosion.

[Hykal]

Originally posted by Edmund Greyfox:

The barricades aren't there to limit explosions. They are there to provide a little bit of cover from ranged attacks, and one last defense to slow melee units down. If you notice, the outer line of turrets are all spaced out just far enough that when one explode it won't damage any of the others. I don't worry about it in the inner ring, because those almost never take enough damage to explode.

Plus, i like the way it looks. :)

Really, aesthetics > function.

[boytype]

Haha I don't know ow what to tell ya either. I will try to screenshot one of my setups where it happens and upload. If it is not the normal behavior then maybe we can figure it out.

I am talking granite walls also, not even wood. Instantly gone when a tier 2 or 3 turret explodes, and dead and maimed people who were taking cover behind that wall.

[Robo]

Originally posted by Ratlegion:

I think the turrets are dreadful. I haven't used them since my first game. I tried after the nerf, and never went back. Having to replace the barrels means I think they should be removed from the game. They are just that bad in vanilla, to me. Yes, I'm only speaking of the mini turrets. They are way too squishy and messy with their explosions, while being costly.

Turrets are generally used to direct fire and attention away from your pawns, which can be a game changer if a horde of enemies push through your killbox and other defensive structures. In addition, they can be used to deter sapper/breacher raids. Just as the description and lore says, turrets have a dumb AI brain, and must be creatively positioned in order to take full advantage of their usefulness. They're not meant to replace your defending pawns.

I recommend giving turrets a shot if you want to reduce the chances of getting overrun, especially since the diversion of attention will allow your colonists to kill some raiders while they are busy destroying your turrets.

[Astasia]

Ya I can confirm single wood wall between turrets will always prevent chain explosions as long as it isn't destroyed before the turret explodes. This has been the case for years and is a popular killbox strategy, the star shaped base on the store page's screenshots uses it. Likewise a single wood wall is also enough to fully contain an antigrain warhead explosion. I've tested this in the past and double checked just now to confirm nothing has changed. I don't suggest using wood of course, but the point is material and health of the wall doesn't matter, nor the force of the explosion, the way explosions work is they are fully absorbed by the first solid block they hit.

If your turrets are being destroyed by grenades then it's possible the grenade is taking out the wall first and then the turret explosion is no longer contained. Also note that embrasures are not solid blocks and will not fully absorb explosions.

[boytype]

I will get some screenshots and yall can explain to me why this is not my experience. Maybe there is something obvious you can point out.

[Dr.Acula]

Originally posted by Ratlegion:

I don't think he meant literal cheating, but that you have to mod in a use case to actually make them usable; an alternative way of putting it is that they simply aren't reasonably usable to him out of the box.

they have limitations in their use out of the box, that is true. But all objects for defense have their limitations when it comes to vanilla.

The last time I played vanilla I basically tried to create a kill box where I had some walls my pawns could stand behind and shoot from because I always considered things like sand bags to extremely weak and I hate losing pawn because of it.

Also it never really stopped melee fighters to get to my ranged fighters.

So how do you stop a primitive fighter with a pointy stick to impale your well equipped soldier that wears armor and an assault rifle? When the soldier is missing to often or there are to many pointy sticks then you'll simply get overwhelmed.

I think modding Rimworld is a perfect way to improve on the limitations from vanilla.

And this includes more turret types as well as more defensive structures.

It's valid to reject mods. However then going into the forum and complaining about the limitations of the turrets is a bit silly.

Also I've seen some Youtube videos on "corner kill box" where quite literally people without using turrets abuse other game mechanics to survive raids. At some point in the game higher difficulties require more creative approaches on how to stop raids.

[Narrowmind]

Lol well, when someone says they have no use, and you come back and say, sure they do - they're great for dealing with prisoners trying to escape - which is actually impossible now without mods - that means that they aren't useful until you found a mod to make them useful. I agree, firmly calling it cheating is subjective. I use mods myself. Just saying in your use case, you acknowledge they were actually right because without the mods, they had no use.

[Dr.Acula]

Originally posted by Ratlegion:

Lol well, when someone says they have no use, and you come back and say, sure they do - they're great for dealing with prisoners trying to escape - which is actually impossible now without mods - that means that they aren't useful until you found a mod to make them useful. I agree, firmly calling it cheating is subjective. I use mods myself. Just saying in your use case, you acknowledge they were actually right because without the mods, they had no use.

I can easily make vanilla turrets work for prison protection without mods. What do you think will happen if a prisoner leaves his cell and the first room he enters has a mini turret a few meters away from him. That thing might miss a few shots but those that hit will hurt especially if that prisoner wears little to no clothes.

And if you think one mini turret isn't enough then put a second there. That will definitely be enough. My prison cells NEVER go directly to the main hallway or outdoors. There's always a small room in front of the prison to deal with trouble makers.

Btw. if you want some other use for that room, then turn it into a small dining room. You can never have enough tables and chairs...

Outdoor defense against enemy raiders is the bigger challenge.