what dictates raid/attack sizes?

[Lycan]

So I used a mod to modify the starter items for my game, I had 5 people and 5 sniper rifles and a bunch of food packs and metal but I found later, raids became about 20-30-40 + attackers, my run was ended about 6 hours in (when I had a large base and about 8 people) a raid was made up of about 70 mad-animals that lagged the game lol what dictates how big raids are? so I can avoid making too much of a big start in the future.

[Lycan]

Tried a few things but they didn't really help me figure it out, started with 10 people and the raid was only like 3 people to start.. but when I made a group of 3 people with 3 charge-rifles, the raid was like 9 people-.. so.. is it value of total items or something?

[RemingtonRyder]

11% of Item value and 5.5% of building value is factored into the calculation. Colonists are worth 40 points each. The sum of that gets scaled by difficulty (it's actually a bit more involved than that but you get the idea).

[Lycan]

Originally posted by Marvin:

11% of Item value and 5.5% of building value is factored into the calculation. Colonists are worth 40 points each. The sum of that gets scaled by difficulty (it's actually a bit more involved than that but you get the idea).

Hmm, is there a way to see the total then in a tab? or must I manually add it all up?

[muzzy]

The first 5 raids are always scaled down a bit. After that, you get the normal full sized raids. As mentioned by others, your wealth counts and buildings are counted at half their value.

[DCvinyou2day]

I noticed gear changes depending on your defenses too. after a couple raids run into turrets they will start bringing long range weapons that can hit the turrets without being hit. Least thats been my experience the last 2 play throughs.

[BlackSmokeDMax]

Here is a post by tynan in regards to this:

https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=20912.msg229659#msg229659

"The idea that storytellers use only (or even primarily) wealth to determine how to scale threats is a myth.

The algorithm is quite a bit more complex than that and takes into account wealth, population, defensive strength, and several factors related to the time since the colony has taken damage, had people downed, or been at given population counts.

It would probably be a waste to spend a bunch of time trying to cheese wealth lower. Just enjoy the game."

[DCvinyou2day]

Originally posted by BlackSmokeDMax:

Here is a post by tynan in regards to this:

https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=20912.msg229659#msg229659

"The idea that storytellers use only (or even primarily) wealth to determine how to scale threats is a myth.

The algorithm is quite a bit more complex than that and takes into account wealth, population, defensive strength, and several factors related to the time since the colony has taken damage, had people downed, or been at given population counts.

It would probably be a waste to spend a bunch of time trying to cheese wealth lower. Just enjoy the game."

Plus who wants to be poor.... Seriously....

[RemingtonRyder]

What you have to bear in mind is that, like Tynan said, wealth plays a small part in the calculation. It's not insignificant but, by the time all the scaling has been done, there's not much point trying to game the game.

[muzzy]

Originally posted by BlackSmokeDMax:

Here is a post by tynan in regards to this:

https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=20912.msg229659#msg229659

"The idea that storytellers use only (or even primarily) wealth to determine how to scale threats is a myth.

♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. Even though the word comes from Tynan himself, what he's saying isn't completely accurate.

Although wealth isn't the only parameter, it definitely is the primary one and basis for everything that follows. A single colonist without equipment counts as 3636 silver worth of wealth. Defensive strenght is NOT part of the equation.

There is an additional ramp-up, and that does get reduced whenever colonists die or end up incapacitated. But that rampup is STILL just a multiplier on top of the wealth, and the ramp-up takes, like, a hundred days to double the threat assuming nobody dies or is incapacitated during that time. But ultimately wealth is still the basis of everything and without wealth you're not going to get high threats.

Anyone disagreeing is welcome to reverse engineer StoryTellerUtility::DefaultParmsNow() which calculates the threat points, which gets called by StoryTellerComp::GenerateParms(), which gets called by StoryTellerComp_ThreatCycle::GenerateQueuedThreatBig(). Additionally you can go through the execution path from IncidentWorker_Raid all the way to PawnGroupMaker to make sure there's no additional surprise manipulations to the threat points that are primarily based on wealth. I just did.

[Spooky]

In one short playthrough I had using the crash landing mod all I was able to save from the flames were a few large shipments of artwork ,a little food, and a couple more useless characters... and no weapons whatsoever.

At first having so much great art around seemed like a brilliant way to start the game.. I was installing them everywhere hehe, with large and grand plasteel and silver and gold statues put wherever they would fit my colonists were pretty happy...

Those raids got nasty real fast, lol. In the end I think infections finished off my last couple of survivors... huts with wodden walls and bruised and battered collonists with poorly crafted wooden clubs and bows weren't much use against invaders with grenades, rifles, shotguns and body armor :P.

On the plus side I learnt that if you put decent artwork outdoors raids will get bored of hammering on the walls after a while and just steal them hehe, may have to try it out as a tactic in a proper game sometime :)

[IronFist]

Well. In my case a good defence is no defence. However I am worried that my troubles will so begin. All my colonists have little weaponry & I have some nice art. But no one has any points in fighting. Which means that I have experienced close calls but nothing more. Nothing a "save and reload" and my doctor can't fix. Admittedly I was really nailed a few times. But now all is quite, will my death soon come?

[IronFist]

...

[Ͽ҈҉Ͼ]

I know there's the whole intended difficulty factor... But I've never personally understood the logic behind the raiding mechanics in this game.

Group A tries to raid you, 8 of their 10 members get killed outright, 1 gets harvested for organs and is sent home without arms, legs, eyes, ears, or most of their face. A week later they send more people to lemming themselves against your turrets, 2 more get harvested and mutilated and sent hobbling back home. Then they send another raid at you the following week as if it will end any differently, and as if they had an inexhaustable number of people to throw at you. Now I know the people I send back are making it all the way because they occasionally show up in a following raid despite having no arms, eyes, ears, ect. But you'd think they would think that maybe it isn't worthwhile to attack my settlement any more given their regular and occasionally extreme losses. Where do they even get these kind of people to launch these suicide attempts while I keep getting colonists that get extra pissy and refuse to do anything just because they decided to eat standing up.

[bigsengineer]

Originally posted by Ͽ҈҉Ͼ:

I know there's the whole intended difficulty factor... But I've never personally understood the logic behind the raiding mechanics in this game.

Group A tries to raid you, 8 of their 10 members get killed outright, 1 gets harvested for organs and is sent home without arms, legs, eyes, ears, or most of their face. A week later they send more people to lemming themselves against your turrets, 2 more get harvested and mutilated and sent hobbling back home. Then they send another raid at you the following week as if it will end any differently, and as if they had an inexhaustable number of people to throw at you. Now I know the people I send back are making it all the way because they occasionally show up in a following raid despite having no arms, eyes, ears, ect. But you'd think they would think that maybe it isn't worthwhile to attack my settlement any more given their regular and occasionally extreme losses. Where do they even get these kind of people to launch these suicide attempts while I keep getting colonists that get extra pissy and refuse to do anything just because they decided to eat standing up.

for starters what u are doing isnt in the base game so doesnt aply to base coding. also this post is very old. but what decides size is simply coloney wealth and number of colonists

[Ͽ҈҉Ͼ]

Originally posted by bigsengineer:

Originally posted by Ͽ҈҉Ͼ:

I know there's the whole intended difficulty factor... But I've never personally understood the logic behind the raiding mechanics in this game.

Group A tries to raid you, 8 of their 10 members get killed outright, 1 gets harvested for organs and is sent home without arms, legs, eyes, ears, or most of their face. A week later they send more people to lemming themselves against your turrets, 2 more get harvested and mutilated and sent hobbling back home. Then they send another raid at you the following week as if it will end any differently, and as if they had an inexhaustable number of people to throw at you. Now I know the people I send back are making it all the way because they occasionally show up in a following raid despite having no arms, eyes, ears, ect. But you'd think they would think that maybe it isn't worthwhile to attack my settlement any more given their regular and occasionally extreme losses. Where do they even get these kind of people to launch these suicide attempts while I keep getting colonists that get extra pissy and refuse to do anything just because they decided to eat standing up.

for starters what u are doing isnt in the base game so doesnt aply to base coding. also this post is very old. but what decides size is simply coloney wealth and number of colonists

Even in the base game, you can remove arms, legs, eyes, ears, ect by installing an implant and removing it. That's why it should be far more demoralizing for the prisoner than if you were actually removing their parts to be useful. I mean, if you attack someone, they wound you bad enough that they can capture you, nurse you back to health, then proceed to just saw off your perfectly fine arms and legs to just toss them into the rubbish bin and send you home on a single peg leg once you're no longer bleeding all over... You aren't exactly going to be super enthusiastic about making a return trip, even for sake or revenge. It was your dumbass leader who decided to raid a well armed settlement instead of a vulnerable caravan.