Freezer problem again - More information

[LookToWindward]

Hi All,

I think I've got to the bottom of the freezer problem I was/am facing.

After getting it to work again, it finally broke after 5 hours+ real time playing. I think the problem is that 21x21 building with double walls give 17x17=289 tiles to store things. It was working fine until it began to fill up, I noticed that sometimes the items in the freezer would hover between a number of days to spoil gradually going up until it said it was frozen. I then added a whole load of shelves this pushed it over the edge and things started to not be frozen. Luckily I've been doing a lot of saves, so I was able to back track to a point where it worked again.

I thought that switching the freezers off/on cured the problem, well it does, I thought it was a glitch and something to do with the way the electric system works (basically a glitch) but now I'm not so sure, it could be that having them off for a while allows them to cool down, I think the longer you leave them off, the more chance you have of having them work when you turn them on again. I noticed that if I did it at night when it was cooler, it had more chance of working. I did this by drafting a pawn into the room, dis-allowing the door so it couldn't get out and had it flick the switches over and over until it worked. Eventually (at night) the pawn fell asleep with the freezers off, when it woke up I then got it to turn them on again and it worked first time.

One thing that would defiantly help is a better explanation of what they are capable of, e.g 1 x freezer will cool a room or N tiles, maybe taking into account the outside temperature, so Outside temperature of 35C will cool a room of 144 tiles, at 30C 180 tiles and so on. Also being able to instantly see the temperature of a room would help a lot. I've done a quick search for more information on freezers but couldn't find anything. Also some kind of message saying that a freezer is overloaded would help a lot.

As an experiment, I'd like to be able to fill up a freezer, I've had a look at the debug stuff but I can't find a way to just create corm (for instance). Ideally just have to appear somewhere on the map. Is this possible? If so, how do I do it?

Anyway, as I see it I have two options:

1. Keep adding Coolers until it freezes. However there's no guarantee that it will work?
2. Split the one big room into two or more rooms.

Any help or suggestions gratefully appreciated.

All the Best
Dave

[The Blind One]

Whats the outside temp?

If its very hot outside like summer or a heatwave or something it'll cost the coolers a lot more to cool down the freezer. Conversely, it's much easier to keep it cooled when the outside is cool too.

I've had freezers break in the summer due to the heat because of this.

You can organize the coolers in a staggered manner to save energy.

First cooler you set at -9C then it will always be blowing cool air.
Second cooler you set at -7C then it will only turn on when the temp is -6C degrees or hotter.
Third cooler you set at -5C, etc
Fourth cooler you set at -3C, etc

This way only coolers will turn on if the temperature is not cool enough. If the coolers can handle it, then the ones not needed won't use energy as much. You wont need to worry about turning them on/off the whole time to save energy this way.

As an experiment, I'd like to be able to fill up a freezer, I've had a look at the debug stuff but I can't find a way to just create corm (for instance). Ideally just have to appear somewhere on the map. Is this possible? If so, how do I do it?

You want to look for 'spawn' thing. or place direct or something, I forgot, but its in the debug tools for sure. You can place stacks of items directly on the ground.

[LookToWindward]

Hi,

Thanks for taking the time to reply so fully. I am in Permanent Summer and at the time the freezer stopped working there was a Heatwave in full swing.

I added a couple more freezers, this time near the door and that makes it a lot better. I had an idea to cool the air in the Airlock too, it's a small area maybe 6/7 tiles that way I won't get so much hot air coming in, do you think that will work?

I've got all 5 freezers set at -35 but the temperature does not get below -5 or -7. do you think I should change it so that they set are lower? I may try what you suggested of having staggered cooling -29, -28, -26, -25, -24.

I have been playing around with the debugger and found you can create raw food with the Spawn thing command.

Thanks again
All the Best
Dave

[Paroe]

My rule of thumb is 2 freezers for a 10x10 room, but if you have a deep storage and people are constantly going in and out definitely invest in an airlock of at least 3 long (Door, air, Door. If your coolers are going full tilt and still cant keep up, add more.

Remember, you can always add more length to an airlock if youre still bleeding temperature.

[LookToWindward]

Great, thanks a lot for this. Looking at you rule of thumb for a 17x17 I'd need 4 but I do have deep storage so 5 is better

[BlackSmokeDMax]

Originally posted by LookToWindward:

Great, thanks a lot for this. Looking at you rule of thumb for a 17x17 I'd need 4 but I do have deep storage so 5 is better

Probably more...
10x10=100 tiles
17x17=289 tiles

So, that is nearly three times as much space.

[The Blind One]

As mentioned before, it depends a lot on the temperature you live in, if you're in permanent summer during a heat wave? You can expect to need more than 2 per 10x10.

I may try what you suggested of having staggered cooling -29, -28, -26, -25, -24.

There is strictly speaking no gameplay or mechanical benefit to having the freezer that cold, you'll only waste more energy trying to get it that low for no actual gain.

I personally use -9C so that there is always a good temperature buffer if the freezer is opened by a lot by pawns going to and fro. It also allows you to stagger down a couple of degrees with extra coolers. As long as it is at least -1 in your freezer you're totally safe gameplay wise.

A simple airlock is all you need (door, free tile, door), you really don't need a larger one as it won't impact it as much as you think, though for work optimization you can have a larger airlock that functions as a hallway to your kitchen and butcher for optimal input/output.

By keeping the butcher and kitchen separate from the freezer through an airlock, the butcher and kitchen will often not be cold enough to have a work penalty while still allowing you to quickly move food in and out of the freezer, at the same time by building the kitchen as an extension of the airlock, only the cook or cleaner should ever be entering the kitchen, this will ensure optimal cleanliness and reduce food poisoning chances.

Consider investing in auto doors as well for the freezer entrance and airlock doors when you are established enough. It's one of the few places where an auto door makes sense. Don't worry about it breaking down or when the power is down, the auto door will function like a normal door when the power is down. You either want a steel or wooden auto door, don't bother with the stone variants as they still open too slow for auto doors to properly function.

[LookToWindward]

Originally posted by The Blind One:

As mentioned before, it depends a lot on the temperature you live in, if you're in permanent summer during a heat wave? You can expect to need more than 2 per 10x10.

I may try what you suggested of having staggered cooling -29, -28, -26, -25, -24.

There is strictly speaking no gameplay or mechanical benefit to having the freezer that cold, you'll only waste more energy trying to get it that low for no actual gain.

I personally use -9C so that there is always a good temperature buffer if the freezer is opened by a lot by pawns going to and fro. It also allows you to stagger down a couple of degrees with extra coolers. As long as it is at least -1 in your freezer you're totally safe gameplay wise.

A simple airlock is all you need (door, free tile, door), you really don't need a larger one as it won't impact it as much as you think, though for work optimization you can have a larger airlock that functions as a hallway to your kitchen and butcher for optimal input/output.

By keeping the butcher and kitchen separate from the freezer through an airlock, the butcher and kitchen will often not be cold enough to have a work penalty while still allowing you to quickly move food in and out of the freezer, at the same time by building the kitchen as an extension of the airlock, only the cook or cleaner should ever be entering the kitchen, this will ensure optimal cleanliness and reduce food poisoning chances.

Consider investing in auto doors as well for the freezer entrance and airlock doors when you are established enough. It's one of the few places where an auto door makes sense. Don't worry about it breaking down or when the power is down, the auto door will function like a normal door when the power is down. You either want a steel or wooden auto door, don't bother with the stone variants as they still open too slow for auto doors to properly function.

Thanks aagin!

I have wooden auto-door's.

Here's a screenshot of the freezer in question:

https://prnt.sc/mGx3ry2p-tR1

All the Best
Dave

[The Blind One]

Looks good, just a few things.

1. You don't need access doors to the coolers, they can be repaired from either side. (I guess they were a remnant from your build to ensure you removed the roof?)

2. That butchery doesn't benefit from the sterile tiles. It looks really nice though.

3. Ideally you want to attach your kitchen in the same way as you attached the butcher to the airlock. (not necessarily but it's what a lot of people do for optimal production

4. Organize that freezer, make it so that meals are at the front of the freezer storage area so pawns walk in, grab a meal, get out. Stuff that lasts the longest should usually be furthest into the back. So meat, milk, eggs should be closer to the door while corn can be all the way in the back for a rainy day. Produce like smokeleaf and psychoid should preferably be at the front so it is accessed more quickly to be processed.

5. You don't seem to have any flooring in your freezer or in the walkways leading to the freezer. You'll want to tile your base as much as possible so that your pawns don't drag dirt around everywhere they go. Of course that kinda depends on how deep you're into the playthrough and how many cleaners you have to keep it all clean. Concrete is actually a pretty good flooring in this situation.

[RayvenQ]

If you add a door in the gap to the left of the wall next to the unallowed door where your coolers are, you'll pretty much have a working airlock.

I'll also add +1 to setting your freezers at -9c.

[The Blind One]

Originally posted by RayvenQ:

If you add a door in the gap to the left of the wall next to the unallowed door where your coolers are, you'll pretty much have a working airlock.

I'll also add +1 to setting your freezers at -9c.

He technically already has a working airlock. There's just an open door at the place where the power circuit is to the left. Though he could add one where you said yes for a double airlock and keep it even cooler so the temp is not disturbed when moving to the butcher.

[LookToWindward]

Originally posted by The Blind One:

Looks good, just a few things.

1. You don't need access doors to the coolers, they can be repaired from either side. (I guess they were a remnant from your build to ensure you removed the roof?)

2. That butchery doesn't benefit from the sterile tiles. It looks really nice though.

3. Ideally you want to attach your kitchen in the same way as you attached the butcher to the airlock. (not necessarily but it's what a lot of people do for optimal production

4. Organize that freezer, make it so that meals are at the front of the freezer storage area so pawns walk in, grab a meal, get out. Stuff that lasts the longest should usually be furthest into the back. So meat, milk, eggs should be closer to the door while corn can be all the way in the back for a rainy day. Produce like smokeleaf and psychoid should preferably be at the front so it is accessed more quickly to be processed.

5. You don't seem to have any flooring in your freezer or in the walkways leading to the freezer. You'll want to tile your base as much as possible so that your pawns don't drag dirt around everywhere they go. Of course that kinda depends on how deep you're into the playthrough and how many cleaners you have to keep it all clean. Concrete is actually a pretty good flooring in this situation.

Great, I really appreciate your help and tips.

1. The reason for the access doors in case of fire. Since it is outside and hot (because of the cooler venting) it can catch fire, I put a door there so I can get to that tile and put the fire out. I guess if I pave it with stone that won't happen?

2. Good to know!

3. I have a small freezer in the kitchen which is next to the dining room, it's set to a higher priority so when full meals go there.

4. Ok that makes sense,

5. In hand, I've got someone making stone tiles and as soon as I have enough I'l do it.

You know I was close to abandoning this because of the freezer problem, I'm so glad I persisted, your information has encouraged me no end!

Al the Best
Dave

[LookToWindward]

Originally posted by RayvenQ:

If you add a door in the gap to the left of the wall next to the unallowed door where your coolers are, you'll pretty much have a working airlock.

I'll also add +1 to setting your freezers at -9c.

There is actually a wooden all there that's in the process of being replace with stone, well spotted though.

I've set the freezer to -9 staged down so -9, -8, -7, -6, -5. However it doesn't seem to drop below about -4, I haven't had a heatwave yet so not sure how to will cope but it's definitely better than is was!