Transhumanist and faster aging are utterly unbalanced

[Antheloras]

I added Transhumanist to my fluid Ideology after my colony was technologically advanved enough, so my colonists now have the age reversal mood debuff.
I play my colony with 4 times aging (not only for children but for everyone).

The result is that my colonists now want to age reversed every season instead of every year. But the process still needs 4 or 3 days, which is really a bit much in my opinion.

Either let them want the age reversal still only once a year with faster aging or let the time for the process scale (eg 1 day instead of 4). This way it's just not fun

[XelNigma]

Originally posted by dot:

People get a little bit too much on the defensive here.

No one is being defensive, there all just pointing out that if you point a gun at your foot and pull the trigger it's not the guns fault that there's a hole in your foot now.

On top of that the solution is very easy; Type in biosculpture in the workshop.

[dot]

Originally posted by XelNigma:

Originally posted by dot:

People get a little bit too much on the defensive here.

No one is being defensive, there all just pointing out that if you point a gun at your foot and pull the trigger it's not the guns fault that there's a hole in your foot now.

On top of that the solution is very easy; Type in biosculpture in the workshop.

Ok, did you even read the rest of my response or you just cropped the first line and answered with the same repeated answer that OP got which is the one I reply to and choose to ignore it.

[jordanleemn]

I know in scenario editor you can tweak alot of things perhaps you could set biosculpting rate to 4 times (haven't checked just a place you could look)

[The Blind One]

Anyone that thinks that the person who increased the aging speed and then ends up with an unbalanced ideology / biosculpter system has it on themselves is a bit of a turd imho.

All the game needs to do is check whether there's an increased aging modifier present in the storyteller and either multiply or divide the aging process in the biosculpter. It's not that hard guys and it's not unreasonable to ask this either.

I personally think the biosculpter is highly under utilized and not as cool as it could be either. At the very least it is ridiculously cheap for what it 'potentially' can do but utterly fails to properly do. I'd much rather see it be much more expensive to research and build and increase its usefulness proportionally. The cool down for biotuning is also a gamey bs mechanic. You telling me you can't factory reset that thing? lol whatever

[Astasia]

Originally posted by lidku716:

Can Pawns die of old age?

Not realistically. If you have an old colonist and give them a bionic heart then they will probably live for as long as you intend to play. Immunity gain speed slowly reduces until it stops at 50% reduced speed at age 120 and beyond, this used to be mildly dangerous for some diseases in theory but immunoenhancers and luciferium means they can survive anything, and now the increased immunity gain genes makes it even easier. So no, in practice age doesn't really matter all that much and dying of "old age" has never been a thing and still isn't.

[Kazouie]

Originally posted by Astasia:

Originally posted by lidku716:

Can Pawns die of old age?

Not realistically. If you have an old colonist and give them a bionic heart then they will probably live for as long as you intend to play. Immunity gain speed slowly reduces until it stops at 50% reduced speed at age 120 and beyond, this used to be mildly dangerous for some diseases in theory but immunoenhancers and luciferium means they can survive anything, and now the increased immunity gain genes makes it even easier. So no, in practice age doesn't really matter all that much and dying of "old age" has never been a thing and still isn't.

But all that is only true in the endgame when you can just slap bionics on everyone and everything.
Before that high age pawns are a real liability.

As for OP, i agree that it doesn't feel right that every ideology would behave as you'd expect even if you crank the storyteller setting to 1000% aging, except transhumanists get absolutely shafted.

[Astasia]

Originally posted by Kazouie:

But all that is only true in the endgame when you can just slap bionics on everyone and everything.
Before that high age pawns are a real liability.

It's only really relevant in the endgame. Humans can only natural generate up to the low 90s, and it's extremely rare to see any above 70. You probably aren't going to recruit an existing 90 year old because they will have like every age related condition at that point, but even if you do they aren't likely to die or get any worse before you get bionics in them. We are talking age 100+ for diseases to become really dangerous without enhancements (unless you only have herbal meds). Even without a bionic heart you can usually keep an old pawn alive by just tending the occasional heart attacks (there is some chance for near instant death with heart attacks, but it's not very likely). Whether they are a liability or not wasn't the discussion, it was whether they can "die of old age" which just isn't a thing in RimWorld.

[Markus Reese]

Originally posted by Zane87:

I don't think anyone missed that. The issue here is simply: he choose to deviate from vanilla balancing himself on purpose and now realizes that... It's not balanced anymore.

Making the game behave differently for random stat changed in the scenario editor or via mods would be a living nightmare for any Dev and frankly a huge waste of time, especially since OP could simply also have changed the bio sculpting speed as well within the scenario editor.

The thing is: it's not an issue because it's a deliberate choice by OP, he just missed to counterbalance his personal change as well.

Yeah, but there is also very good reason to adjust it. For starters, leaving it that way you will find yourself getting a bunch of teenagers in a colony that are teenagers that catch up to effectively a never aging population.

The birth system just doesn't play well at a 100% time frame. So yes, having it so regeneration cycles are more potent or take less time would be the balance.

Personally that is what I would have it do. Is the time multiplier would multiply the effect as opposed to the frequency.

[The Blind One]

Originally posted by twistedmelon:

Personally that is what I would have it do. Is the time multiplier would multiply the effect as opposed to the frequency.

Yup that seems like an easy solution. It won't throw off any other balance issues that way.

I personally also like to play with 4x time speed for realism and the experience of time passing.

[Mimic]

I totally agree that changing the aging time and being upset that Bio Sculptor pods don't function in a balanced way is ridiculous.

HOWEVER, the better question is why can't we adjust Bio Sculptor pod times in the settings.

[jordanleemn]

Just checked in scenario editor you can adjust biosculpter pod speed factor and biosculpter occupant speed. Just use add part stat multiplier

[Antheloras]

Thank you for all your answers, there was a lot of great advise in it :-)
Actually the problem solved itself. It is only for the first deaging-process, that the age is reversed by a year. As soon as the pod is linked to the colonist, the age will be reduced by 4 years from the second time onwards (which fits my 4 times aging option).
I really don't know why it doesn't do it right from the start... but I can live with that.

[Steelfleece]

Originally posted by Astasia:

Originally posted by Kazouie:

But all that is only true in the endgame when you can just slap bionics on everyone and everything.
Before that high age pawns are a real liability.

It's only really relevant in the endgame. Humans can only natural generate up to the low 90s, and it's extremely rare to see any above 70. You probably aren't going to recruit an existing 90 year old because they will have like every age related condition at that point, but even if you do they aren't likely to die or get any worse before you get bionics in them. We are talking age 100+ for diseases to become really dangerous without enhancements (unless you only have herbal meds). Even without a bionic heart you can usually keep an old pawn alive by just tending the occasional heart attacks (there is some chance for near instant death with heart attacks, but it's not very likely). Whether they are a liability or not wasn't the discussion, it was whether they can "die of old age" which just isn't a thing in RimWorld.

You haven't seen the raiders I tend to get early game when I need to boost population. It's like they dressed a whole rest home in rags, handed them some rusty knives and old handguns they found in the swamp and sent them shambling at my colony in small groups with the promise of apple sauce and their kids visiting if they manage to hit someone.

[The Blind One]

Originally posted by Astasia:

Humans can only natural generate up to the low 90s, and it's extremely rare to see any above 70.

From vanilla, the age ranges and their weights.

<li>(14,0)</li>
<li>(16,100)</li>
<li>(50,100)</li>
<li>(60,30)</li>
<li>(70,18)</li>
<li>(80,10)</li>
<li>(90,3)</li>
<li>(100,0)</li>

Total weights is 261. Age 70 weight = 18

18/261 = 0.083 x 100% = 8.3%

The total chance someone is 70 or older = 18 + 10 + 3 = 31 weight

31/261 = 0.1187 X 100% = 11.87%

I don't think 8.3% or 11.87% is 'extremely rare'.

(p.s biotech changes some of the numbers but the odds are still around 5% or more)

[Astasia]

Originally posted by The Blind One:

Originally posted by Astasia:

Humans can only natural generate up to the low 90s, and it's extremely rare to see any above 70.

From vanilla, the age ranges and their weights.

<li>(14,0)</li>
<li>(16,100)</li>
<li>(50,100)</li>
<li>(60,30)</li>
<li>(70,18)</li>
<li>(80,10)</li>
<li>(90,3)</li>
<li>(100,0)</li>

Total weights is 261. Age 70 weight = 18

18/261 = 0.083 x 100% = 8.3%

The total chance someone is 70 or older = 18 + 10 + 3 = 31 weight

31/261 = 0.1187 X 100% = 11.87%

I don't think 8.3% or 11.87% is 'extremely rare'.

(p.s biotech changes some of the numbers but the odds are still around 5% or more)

It's not a weighted list, it's a curve. 16,100 and 50,100 are not two numbers on a list, they are essentially 35 separate values of 100 for each age in that range, between them is 17, 100 / 18, 100 / 19, 100 etc. The chance for a pawn to spawn above age 70 is definitely below 5%. Though I was looking at those numbers when I made the post and was thinking the 80,10 and 90,3 range when I typed "above 70."