Console Edition = Achievements (?)

[This user has no known aliases]

Since it gets released on consoles and those require their games to have achievements, does the PC version gain parity in its feature list?

I really would appreciate that.

[glass zebra]

Originally posted by Raelic:

Making a scenario that gives a trophy doesn't keep you from making a custom difficulty run. You just wouldn't be eligible for that trophy. Which, should be meaningless to you since that's what you claim. Same with mods.

And I disagree with your assessment that it's the reason there isn't a custom difficulty on console. There are runs you can do on console that don't meet the requirements for trophies.

For people that don't care about trophies so much, ya'll care about them a lot.

It was an argument for the "achievements incentivise people to play in a specific way", which is against the core of (this) game and therefore described as a negative. I am not sure where you got the support for your view from.

[Raelic]

Originally posted by glass zebra:

Originally posted by Raelic:

Making a scenario that gives a trophy doesn't keep you from making a custom difficulty run. You just wouldn't be eligible for that trophy. Which, should be meaningless to you since that's what you claim. Same with mods.

And I disagree with your assessment that it's the reason there isn't a custom difficulty on console. There are runs you can do on console that don't meet the requirements for trophies.

For people that don't care about trophies so much, ya'll care about them a lot.

It was an argument for the "achievements incentivise people to play in a specific way", which is against the core of (this) game and therefore described as a negative. I am not sure where you got the support for your view from.

I don't know about you, but I've played this game a certain way many times. I'm not arguing with the Dev, but having one of those times be a run specific to an achievement isn't as bad of a thing as you all are trying to make it out to be.

And if you don't want to do it, don't do it. Why does it bother you? Right?

[glass zebra]

Originally posted by Raelic:

And if you don't want to do it, don't do it. Why does it bother you? Right?

Because Tynan made an effort to make an enjoyable game and tried to stay within his vision of what that means as much as possible. Putting achievements into games and some people arguing that that is must have or they wont pay, shows a dissatisfying tendency for gaming culture:

Originally posted by Astasia:

When I put a lot of time into a game and see I am missing a number of achievements, I sometimes feel obligated to try and get them, it's almost a subconscious urge to try to "complete" a game I otherwise really enjoy, and this often tends to result in me doing things I don't actually enjoy and souring my opinion of the game.

[whatamidoing]

Originally posted by Raelic:

Originally posted by glass zebra:

It was an argument for the "achievements incentivise people to play in a specific way", which is against the core of (this) game and therefore described as a negative. I am not sure where you got the support for your view from.

I don't know about you, but I've played this game a certain way many times. I'm not arguing with the Dev, but having one of those times be a run specific to an achievement isn't as bad of a thing as you all are trying to make it out to be.

And if you don't want to do it, don't do it. Why does it bother you? Right?

There's a big difference between playing the game a certain way because that's how you like it and having a certain playstyle imposed upon you. Why do you need achievements to put an arbitrary restriction in yourself?

[Raelic]

Originally posted by whatamidoing:

Originally posted by Raelic:

I don't know about you, but I've played this game a certain way many times. I'm not arguing with the Dev, but having one of those times be a run specific to an achievement isn't as bad of a thing as you all are trying to make it out to be.

And if you don't want to do it, don't do it. Why does it bother you? Right?

There's a big difference between playing the game a certain way because that's how you like it and having a certain playstyle imposed upon you. Why do you need achievements to put an arbitrary restriction in yourself?

I've already explained myself twice.

So listen to this person instead...

https://steamcommunity.com/app/294100/discussions/0/3460472182663812056/

What if the Dev had already answered this question with one he wanted to make more official?

And if we all do a challenge that felt more official we could talk about it and enjoy it together.

[whatamidoing]

Originally posted by Raelic:

Originally posted by whatamidoing:

There's a big difference between playing the game a certain way because that's how you like it and having a certain playstyle imposed upon you. Why do you need achievements to put an arbitrary restriction in yourself?

I've already explained myself twice.

So listen to this person instead...

https://steamcommunity.com/app/294100/discussions/0/3460472182663812056/

What if the Dev had already answered this question with one he wanted to make more official?

And if we all do a challenge that felt more official we could talk about it and enjoy it together.

But the dev explicitly doesn't want to make any official, and we can share better stories when we just play how we want instead of trying to conform to a set objective. That's what makes the old DF stories like Boatmurdered so interesting, it's just people trying to do their own things.

[glass zebra]

That person is looking for ideas to make a new run, not for somebody to tell them what to do to until they reach a certain trigger. That's the difference between looking for inspiration and then creating some art versus opening a drawing book and filling out the areas. One ends in reaching your own creative result, the other does not. Being official does not make a goal more legitimate. It just tells you what to do. In a game that has freedom of play at it's core to be able to create rather unique stories.

[Raelic]

Originally posted by glass zebra:

That person is looking for ideas to make a new run, not for somebody to tell them what to do to until they reach a certain trigger. That's the difference between looking for inspiration and then creating some art versus opening a drawing book and filling out the areas. One ends in reaching your own creative result, the other does not. Being official does not make a goal more legitimate. It just tells you what to do. In a game that has freedom of play at it's core to be able to create rather unique stories.

The answer I provided this user and was thanked for is an achievement from the console.

Originally posted by whatamidoing:

Originally posted by Raelic:

I've already explained myself twice.

So listen to this person instead...

https://steamcommunity.com/app/294100/discussions/0/3460472182663812056/

What if the Dev had already answered this question with one he wanted to make more official?

And if we all do a challenge that felt more official we could talk about it and enjoy it together.

But the dev explicitly doesn't want to make any official, and we can share better stories when we just play how we want instead of trying to conform to a set objective. That's what makes the old DF stories like Boatmurdered so interesting, it's just people trying to do their own things.

I'm fine with the dev's response. As I've said. I'm just arguing my side since you all are so insulting with the name calling and have formed a hardline against achievements.

In my world, I'm 100% with what I want. I have achievements on console. I don't care about the achievements here. SAM would make them meaningless.

What I do argue is your reasoning for not wanting achievements. I also argue with your telling others why THEY want achievements.

It seems to me like you care about the achievements more than people that want them.

[This user has no known aliases]

Originally posted by Astasia:

Originally posted by This user has no known aliases:

Second: You argue against it with points that simply could be flipped.

Yes. That was more or less the point of my post. We can both deal with having achievements or not

And this is the impression I do not have of most that argue against achievements.

Either no achievements or bust.

while having opposite opinions on them. Many of the arguments made for having achievements can equally be flipped. In either scenario some people are unhappy. The fact of the matter is the current state of the game and last response from the dev on the matter, is that there will be no achievements and they are detrimental to gameplay. This is you could say the foundation on which some people have purchased the game, and it wouldn't make a lot of sense to change that.

Originally posted by This user has no known aliases:

Another way to satisfy you would be another edition like they did in Divinity: Original Sin and Wasteland 2. They provided a second iteration to everyone who owned the previous edition, calling the second edition the "Enhanced Edition". It seems like this costs nothing. This could be done here as easily, provided I am right with my assumption.

Or would this bugger you as well?

To be completely honest it would bug me to some extent, because that would require the dev to create and maintain a second version of the game. That's effort not spent fixing bugs or adding new content to the next patch/DLC. Maybe after development has finished and all the DLC is out they could release a "RimWorld gold" with all the DLC and with added achievements, free for players who already owned the game and all DLC. [/quote] Maybe. Maybe not. If this seriously annoys you out of speculation on your part, then I have quite the hard time taking your position into consideration at all.

I think the solution has already been provided though, that being the console edition, maintained by a different development studio and with I assume no dev mode or mods to get in the way of the achievement experience.

You start to lean way further out of the window than necessary, so who says that managing ports for entirely different system does not require business administration, parity, etc. Things, that are potentially incredibly stressful. Who knows, you don't, I don't. Just like with two versions.

A number of people in the past have claimed an unwillingness to buy the game without achievements, now they have a version to buy. If you already bought the PC version, well...

I do not have a console. If it sucks to be me, well,

Have some consideration for the experiences of other people

In all honesty, since you make such a strong claim towards knowing any work load capacity of any devs; saying it would annoy you even if there were different versions on steam because of reasons you have not a single clue about; then I am really sorry but to take your points as valid has zero weight behind it. Thank you for your answers, though.

---

Originally posted by whatamidoing:

Why can't you? Why do you have this need to compare yourself?

What are you talking about? Compare with what? Other games?

Originally posted by whatamidoing:

we can share better stories when we just play how we want instead of trying to conform to a set objective.

Yeah, but then just don't.

[whatamidoing]

There's going to be a lot more players from a console edition than from a separate pc version with achievements.

[This user has no known aliases]

Originally posted by whatamidoing:

There's going to be a lot more players from a console edition than from a separate pc version with achievements.

So?

And regarding your previous posts: It is really appreciated to hear a dev's opinion. That makes nothing I say invalid. Instead, the dev's POV is that people are too weak to do what they want. This is actually contrary to what you try to preach. This is the core point behind why people *still* argue *for* achievements. If you don't like them, ignore them. Most people do. Instead, people do not even have the opportunity to ignore them in the first place. You can not unmake anything that did not exist.

---

Originally posted by glass zebra:

That person is looking for ideas to make a new run, not for somebody to tell them what to do to until they reach a certain trigger. That's the difference between looking for inspiration and then creating some art versus opening a drawing book and filling out the areas. One ends in reaching your own creative result, the other does not. Being official does not make a goal more legitimate. It just tells you what to do. In a game that has freedom of play at it's core to be able to create rather unique stories.

[and so on]

And again, this is absolutely not even in the ballpark of any validity contrary to my points since you still can do all this with achievements officially implemented. Aside from the analogy being faulty since you could not draw your own creations in such a sketch book because it lacks blank pages.

RimWorld with achievements has blank pages and pages to colour in. This would be much more appropriate of an analogy.

[whatamidoing]

Originally posted by This user has no known aliases:

Originally posted by whatamidoing:

There's going to be a lot more players from a console edition than from a separate pc version with achievements.

So?

And regarding your previous posts: It is really appreciated to hear a dev's opinion. That makes nothing I say invalid. Instead, the dev's POV is that people are too weak to do what they want. This is actually contrary to what you try to preach. This is the core point behind why people *still* argue *for* achievements. If you don't like them, ignore them. Most people do. Instead, people do not even have the opportunity to ignore them in the first place. You can not unmake anything that did not exist.

But I do have the option to not use the mod that adds achievements.

[This user has no known aliases]

Originally posted by whatamidoing:

But I do have the option to not use the mod that adds achievements.

Yes.

The community-made mod is incompatible with sites like Exophase. As soon as you format your PC, the achievements are nil. They require people without pay to maintain the mod with every patch without source code, pay (again), talent, Steam API, etc.

If this wouldn't be the case, I actually would prefer this to an official implementation. Like this, it is merely an automated version of drawing badges on toilet paper.

I think there might even be a possibility to let the community have an official Steam page for the mod, which implements Steam achievements. But this would be akin to have two different versions and people really come and try to deny others access to a separate version.

Would you agree to a separate version?

[whatamidoing]

You can freely decompile the game and patch code with Harmony, so any achievements are already nil. People also do donate to the people behind the achievements mod, so they're paid to maintain it. You could also make your own mod that posts achievements to a site you make, if that matters to you. That'd be an actual achievement.
I'd question Tynan's integrity if there were ever a separate pc version, going against his vision.

[This user has no known aliases]

Originally posted by whatamidoing:

You can freely decompile the game and patch code with Harmony, so any achievements are already nil.

Why would I do that?

Why is it that people see this as a competition? Why should I cheat on myself?

People also do donate to the people behind the achievements mod, so they're paid to maintain it.

Nice to know, is not nearly the same.

You could also make your own mod that posts achievements to a site you make, if that matters to you. That'd be an actual achievement.

Talking about being rude.

I'd question Tynan's integrity if there were ever a separate pc version, going against his vision.

lol.

Thanks for your answers, though.