SMG vs AR

[Tam]

Reading about noob weapon and every second person says H-SMGs are better than AR for noobs with low skill "due top accuracy".

Why so ?
Short - 12 cells - 65% vs 70% for AR
Medium - twice lower than AR
Closer - is good, but its 3 cells range.
Weapon good at 12 cells range, but for that range we have Chain Shorgun dominating the scene.

So why heavy SMG is better noob weapon, could some1 elaborate please ?

[its so balatrover]

Whoever told you that is probably wrong; for close range shotguns are clearly the superior choice (and better for noob shooters), and any materials and labor you spend on making SMGs you could be using to make ARs or shotguns.

[Tam]

Originally posted by infiniminer:

Whoever told you that is probably wrong; for close range shotguns are clearly the superior choice (and better for noob shooters), and any materials and labor you spend on making SMGs you could be using to make ARs or shotguns.

https://www.reddit.com/r/RimWorld/comments/ptly6y/assult_rifle_vs_heavy_smg/
Seems like reddit is full of crap.

[XelNigma]

Because people who use heavy smgs don't use kill boxes. So most combat takes place under 12 cells. And the heavy smgs has a MUCH higher accuracy at that range than both the AR and chaingun if the same quality.
Heavy smgs also have the best armor Peirceing of the three weapons, thus the shots that land have a better chance of dealing damage.
It also fires faster than both weapons.

So to recap, hits like a truck, has the best accuracy at the range you will be doing the most fighting in if you don't use kill boxes, has the best odds of getting past armor. And has the fastest warm up and cool down of the three guns.

Yes the chain shotgun deals more damage but it's got a really low accuracy even at touch range. Where h smgs get 94% by good quality and 100% from then on. You will almost never miss all three burst shots with an smg at ranges under 6 tiles. Shotgun will regularly.

[VoiD]

Originally posted by XelNigma:

Because people who use heavy smgs don't use kill boxes. So most combat takes place under 12 cells. And the heavy smgs has a MUCH higher accuracy at that range than both the AR and chaingun if the same quality.
Heavy smgs also have the best armor Peirceing of the three weapons, thus the shots that land have a better chance of dealing damage.
It also fires faster than both weapons.

So to recap, hits like a truck, has the best accuracy at the range you will be doing the most fighting in if you don't use kill boxes, has the best odds of getting past armor. And has the fastest warm up and cool down of the three guns.

Yes the chain shotgun deals more damage but it's got a really low accuracy even at touch range. Where h smgs get 94% by good quality and 100% from then on. You will almost never miss all three burst shots with an smg at ranges under 6 tiles. Shotgun will regularly.

This is what I thought too.

I mean, shotguns are great too, if you can break LoS to lure enemies very close, or when you're fighting against infestations, but I really like heavy SMGs as they are versatile too, you don't need to think about what you're going against, it will always work.

At least in vanilla.

When pawns start aiming better I often give everyone standard assault rifles and usually don't even bother upgrading to Charge Rifles, I mean, they are better against the most dangerous foes, sure, but ARs kinda get the job done anyway.

At least in vanilla.

[VoiD]

PS: Still a great fan of the Legendary Minigun, when you want to delete a foe with certainty (and I'm a big fan of reming all RNG from games with RNG) then that's the weapon for you, nothing will survive.

At least in vanilla.

[Tam]

Originally posted by XelNigma:

Because people who use heavy smgs don't use kill boxes. So most combat takes place under 12 cells. And the heavy smgs has a MUCH higher accuracy at that range than both the AR and chaingun if the same quality.
Heavy smgs also have the best armor Peirceing of the three weapons, thus the shots that land have a better chance of dealing damage.
It also fires faster than both weapons.

So to recap, hits like a truck, has the best accuracy at the range you will be doing the most fighting in if you don't use kill boxes, has the best odds of getting past armor. And has the fastest warm up and cool down of the three guns.

Yes the chain shotgun deals more damage but it's got a really low accuracy even at touch range. Where h smgs get 94% by good quality and 100% from then on. You will almost never miss all three burst shots with an smg at ranges under 6 tiles. Shotgun will regularly.

AR has 70% acc 12 cells
SMG has 65% acc 12 cells

1 damage difference
2% penetration difference (neglible)

Where is that huge advantage you are talking about ?
Does it have incredible acc burst with quality ?

[XelNigma]

Good smg touch: 94% acc
Excellent+ smg touch: 100% acc

Good AR touch: 66% acc
Legendary AR touch: 90%

So between 1 and 6 cells the smg gets a huge spike in accuracy.
The AR gets a mild increase

Meaning with all things being equal a shooter with 4 shooting skill is going to deal way more damage with an smg than an AR at those ranges.

[Astasia]

Low skill pawns aren't realistically going to be hitting anything at long or even medium range. Chance to hit is weapon accuracy * (shooter accuracy ^ distance to target). A skill 0 shooter trying to hit something at 25 tiles away (medium range) has about a 5% chance to hit, multiplied by weapon accuracy and reduced by cover. SMGs have higher DPS than Assault Rifles at short and touch range, and since that's all low skill shooters have a realistic chance of hitting at it's the best weapon to give them. They can still attempt to hit at medium range, and with a faster rate of fire there's a real chance their "misses" will hit something anyway, or they at least gain shooting exp for trying, which is why the SMG wins out over the chain shotgun in most situations. A masterwork or above chain shotgun does a lot more damage at short range though, and if you can pull enemies in close with a killbox designed for it they are the highest "single target" DPS weapon in the game and just fine in the hands of a low skill pawn.

In the hands of a competent pawn the assault rifle is generally better than the SMG for general use, since it can start tagging enemies at a greater distance and has higher medium range DPS.