Lost rep from shooting a "turned" guest?

[Wild Raven]

(Playing a zombie land play-through and have the guest mod)

My play though was going fine, until one guest that came to visit was bitten and turned into a zed. One of the zeds former friends, and it, were locked in battle in my kitchen. As a good host, i thought it would be courteous to help them out. Upon entering the kitchen, my pawn took a shotgun to the zeds face and put it to rest. I then lost rep (from 27 to -71). Im guessing the game cant tell the difference between a zed and a visitor?

Im on permadeath so now im stuck with pissing off this faction for no reason.. I like the idea of anyone could be infected, but if its going to cause this issue, i would rather have it turned off.

(i did notice one guest took one pellet to the arm with no real damage, but there were two instances of losing rep (two shots) with one instance being 27 to 6, then 6 to -71 upon the zeds death)

Anyone else have this issue? Is it a known thing?

[Narrowmind]

This is an issue for the mod to handle. If you post in the mod thread, he may compensate for it, because turning guests doesn't happen in vanilla.

[Daunmi]

The key to dealing with 'guests' in your map is to do EVERYTHING IN YOUR POWER to stay the hell away from them.

If they try to 'help' you with a raid (also known as: run face first into a raid you would otherwise be perfectly capable of handling, getting in the way of your perfectly organised line of fire), back off and leave them to their fate.

If one of them has a mental break and starts lobbing grenades, back off and leave them to their fate.

If there's a manhunting squirrel that poses no real threat but you just know it's going to down one of your guests, back off and leave them to their fate.

Try to actually help and the game will quite happily blame you for EVERYTHING that goes wrong. Accidentally shot a guy? Your fault for trying to save them. Punch a berserk who just downed 3 of their own friends? Your fault for harming an 'ally'.

Leave 'guests' the hell alone. Keep them away from your base. Minimise interaction. Also, grab a mod that lets you dismiss them whenever you feel like because the less time 'friends' stay on your map, the better.

Originally posted by Ratlegion:

because turning guests doesn't happen in vanilla.

Tell that to mental breaks when the game decides you really need a trade caravan arriving during a high psychic drone.

[Astasia]

Originally posted by Daunmi:

Punch a berserk who just downed 3 of their own friends? Your fault for harming an 'ally'.

Killing a berserk visitor in vanilla doesn't penalize you.

There's also some leeway with friendly fire, but in general as you would expect it's not a good idea to shoot in the general direction of your allies.

[Wild Raven]

Originally posted by Daunmi:

The key to dealing with 'guests' in your map is to do EVERYTHING IN YOUR POWER to stay the hell away from them.

After playing a bit further into my current colony, i can agree with this advice. Most of the time, the guests walk around, use some facilities, and buy from my shop zone (which is the only reason i care to have guests) which is fine, but, there are alot of circumstances where they cause me grief.

I have to micro manage my turrets since they wander in front of them. I have to also watch closely while a pawn practices shooting. They dont fire on zeds on sight like my pawns do, they only defend themselves after getting attacked by said zed, at which point, they are opt for friendly fire since a pawn will fire on the zed unless i micromanage quickly enough.

In the winter they wander around and die off screen, then later turn into a powerful zed, or if i catch them in time, i have to waste meds on their frostbite, just so they can get up and wander in a blizzard again ;p

I downloaded the mod "not my fault" so i wont lose rep if they die if im not involved directly, but i will definitly have to corral them in a zone they cant leave from with everything in one spot, and leave them the hell alone, as advised.

[Astasia]

Just FYI that mod doesn't accomplish nearly as much as it claims. In vanilla you only lose 5 rep if a NPC pawn dies to fire or wild animals, and they become hostile if you kill them, other than that the game already doesn't punish you. If they go berserk and you kill them, if they friendly fire each other with frags, if they walk into a mechanoid cluster or insect hive and all die, you don't get penalized at all.

The penalties for fire and wild animals are just to prevent abuse, since people used to set fire to the area around a caravan or shoot a thrumbo to make it manhunter and wipe them out for free loot. It's very rare for visitors to die from fire or animals without player involvement, if you are fine with a mod with such a narrow benefit go ahead and use it, but it's worth knowing what your mods do.

[Vermillion Cardinal]

Originally posted by WildRaVen1990:

Originally posted by Daunmi:

The key to dealing with 'guests' in your map is to do EVERYTHING IN YOUR POWER to stay the hell away from them.

I have to micro manage my turrets since they wander in front of them. I have to also watch closely while a pawn practices shooting. They dont fire on zeds on sight like my pawns do, they only defend themselves after getting attacked by said zed, at which point, they are opt for friendly fire since a pawn will fire on the zed unless i micromanage quickly enough.

In the winter they wander around and die off screen, then later turn into a powerful zed, or if i catch them in time, i have to waste meds on their frostbite, just so they can get up and wander in a blizzard again ;p

I downloaded the mod "not my fault" so i wont lose rep if they die if im not involved directly, but i will definitly have to corral them in a zone they cant leave from with everything in one spot, and leave them the hell alone, as advised.

All the above could've been avoided if you zoned them into the most secure locations in your base to begin with upon arrival. I'm a Zombieland player as well, and when guests arrive they get zoned away from my walls and exits and into a special hotel where almost everything is available (and what's not is a short walk away that isn't anywhere where I don't want them to be).

Your job is to provide hospitality and security for them, so letting them wander into the zombie infested wilds, in front of your turrets and into a live fire training ground by not imposing movement restrictions is definitely your fault.

[budisourdog]

Don't use guests with zombieland. They'll get themselves killed then hate you.
Once upon a time in b18 there was a Tiberium Rim mod, and just like this guests and caravans loved to just sit around in the tib fields getting irradiated to hell, dying, and then getting pissed off that their dudes died and even having some factions turn hostile to you because of this.

[Daunmi]

Originally posted by Astasia:

Killing a berserk visitor in vanilla doesn't penalize you.

There's also some leeway with friendly fire, but in general as you would expect it's not a good idea to shoot in the general direction of your allies.

I will freely admit to some exaggeration. However when I have been safely shooting at the enemy for some time and my 'allies' come charging in, through my firing line, and try to apparently bite hostiles to death I really don't feel like me shooting them should be blamed on me.

[Wild Raven]

Originally posted by Vermillion Cardinal:

Originally posted by WildRaVen1990:

I have to micro manage my turrets since they wander in front of them. I have to also watch closely while a pawn practices shooting. They dont fire on zeds on sight like my pawns do, they only defend themselves after getting attacked by said zed, at which point, they are opt for friendly fire since a pawn will fire on the zed unless i micromanage quickly enough.

In the winter they wander around and die off screen, then later turn into a powerful zed, or if i catch them in time, i have to waste meds on their frostbite, just so they can get up and wander in a blizzard again ;p

I downloaded the mod "not my fault" so i wont lose rep if they die if im not involved directly, but i will definitly have to corral them in a zone they cant leave from with everything in one spot, and leave them the hell alone, as advised.

All the above could've been avoided if you zoned them into the most secure locations in your base to begin with upon arrival. I'm a Zombieland player as well, and when guests arrive they get zoned away from my walls and exits and into a special hotel where almost everything is available (and what's not is a short walk away that isn't anywhere where I don't want them to be).

Your job is to provide hospitality and security for them, so letting them wander into the zombie infested wilds, in front of your turrets and into a live fire training ground by not imposing movement restrictions is definitely your fault.

I will say, you are not wrong. There are faults on my end, but its not all on me. Currently my base is set up like a small town which is surrounded by walls with 3 points of entry. I let them walk freely around so they can get to the kitchen/dining area, the beds, and the store. They also use the shooting range for rec so i didnt want to zone that out. As for the turrets, they mostly get fired upon when entering and leaving unless i can flip them off or there is no zeds in the line of sight.

Sure, im supposed to assure safety, but it would be nice if my guests acted like armed adults that live on a hostile planet, and not like helpless goats. The best way it seems, is to build a mini compound with all those things listed only for them like some kind of daycare.

[Vermillion Cardinal]

Originally posted by WildRaVen1990:

I will say, you are not wrong. There are faults on my end, but its not all on me. Currently my base is set up like a small town which is surrounded by walls with 3 points of entry. I let them walk freely around so they can get to the kitchen/dining area, the beds, and the store. They also use the shooting range for rec so i didnt want to zone that out. As for the turrets, they mostly get fired upon when entering and leaving unless i can flip them off or there is no zeds in the line of sight.

Sure, im supposed to assure safety, but it would be nice if my guests acted like armed adults that live on a hostile planet, and not like helpless goats. The best way it seems, is to build a mini compound with all those things listed only for them like some kind of daycare.

For the training ground I probably would've zoned them out anyway if I've got enough different entertainment sources; this isn't Tropico where you'd get higher tourism ratings for variety.

Getting in and out is indeed troublesome when Zombieland is involved; the number of times I've watched with consternation when they decide to leave during peak zombie periods, and right through the biggest packs...

I control entry somewhat by opening up when i see a long low threat period so it's more likely they'll not turn up while at 100% threat and get eviscerated. It does reduce Hospitality's usefulness, but I treat it like a mix of pandemic lockdowns and dangerous post apocalyptic travel: your tourism income depends on how bad things are out there, and sometimes you gotta do what's best for your tourists even if it means keeping them out during peak tourist season.

For exiting, I find that blocking off certain exits with walls when they're leaving and leaving clear the remaining route helps to guide them away from the worst crowds; I either use my SRTS helicopter to drop a distraction squad to draw the zombies away, or place guardpost embrasures that allows me to clear the gates (the latter also makes it safer to periodically clear the masses). Alternatively (and this is a bit cheesier) I block off all my entrances but leave a few structures outside far away unblocked; zombie AI causes them to gravitate to doors they can breach and enter at night, so you can use it to pull them far away at the risk of having an enraged horde build up which you may or may not be able to handle but might dissipate when they start running from across the map. The enraged horde is less likely to breach the bait doors when they don't have any path to your base. I don't use turrets much, and having my people shoot zombies builds their shooting very quickly which is useful for standard raids.

RimWorld AI with Zombieland is just 50/50 whether you get the one that knows to shoot first, or the one that sees people watching dumbly as their companions solo a zombie horde with no backup. If it's someone I want/need to protect, I'm taking no chances; you may be armed, but I'm the law here and Security's responsible for keeping you safe during your stay. If you're drafted, either something's gone to hell, or I messed up.