Which meal is the most efficient?

[Gerrymon]

Between vanilla meals and VE soups/grills/stews?

[whatamidoing]

In vanilla, paste > simple = fine > survival > lavish, with the vegetarian/carnivore options being extra inefficient compared to their normal versions. For modded foods, check the mod page.

[Bumbleton]

Afaik, vanilla foods are still more efficient in terms of raw nutrition, but the VE foods can be better for other things. Soups and stews can be prepared very fast and then allowed to cook, so great if you can afford the down-time, and grills keep your pawns from getting hungry as fast so long as they're not frozen.

[Hoki]

if we're talking efficiency as in keeping pawns fed:

nutrient paste dispenser
soups
vanilla meals
stews

everything besides the NPD repeats itself with more costs but also higher mood return

BBQmeals are something you wanna do only when you have access of meat as they get ruined by storing them in low temperatures

for other foods provided by said mods you better check the modpage for their individual effects otherwise they fall short to normal food in efficiency.

[qualified turtle ship]

Not recommended normally, but In desperate situations, for extra food 'efficiency' wait until your pawn is starving before eating. When pawns are starving their hunger rate falls at significantly reduced rates. About ~20% malnutrition is enough that they will still barely be staring for their next meal. Bad normally bc micro -hell and bc starving has other bad effects best to avoid.

[glass zebra]

If you got into malnutrition, their hunger rate raises.

[qualified turtle ship]

hrm you are right. I was reading the 50% hunger rate offset the other way around. Not as good as I thought. Ironically still worth it though, bc the hunger bar locks at zero and doesn't go negative. I don't know the exact rate of increase for malnutrition, but i'm guessing the penalty would have to be somewhere around 100% to negate the benefit of locking hunger bar at zero.

Real game data
Starving my pawn to 45% malnutrition and then letting them recover to zero malnutrition lets him go ~2 days on 2 meals (1 day of starving to get to 45% malnutrition and 1 day + 5 hours to recover) Vs a pawn who I forced to eat just before they reached zero hunger which required 3 meals.

[The Blind One]

I noticed you can make regular 'fine meal' which are vegetarian due to its ingredients (raw plant food + animal produce), as well as making a 'vegetarian fine meal' (only raw plant food) which is a completely separate recipe. The difference is that regular fine meals when vegetarian in end result require far less nutrition input than the specific vegetarian fine meals. Same goes for lavish versions which are even worse.

Gives you some leeway I suppose. Vegetarian fine meals seem to be exclusively plant based whereas the normal versions allow you to add animal produce. So vegetarian fine meals are essentially vegan diets lol.

[Gerrymon]

Originally posted by The Blind One:

It's just confusing really and inefficient to order vegetarian fine meals by the recipe maker. Just order fine meals and set them to only accept vegetarian ingredients and you'll save yourself a tonne of nutrition in the long run.

Oot, but didn't regular fine meals required animal products + veggies? I never played vegetarian ideologion, can milk and eggs still considered vegetarian meal?

[The Blind One]

Originally posted by Gerrymon:

Originally posted by The Blind One:

It's just confusing really and inefficient to order vegetarian fine meals by the recipe maker. Just order fine meals and set them to only accept vegetarian ingredients and you'll save yourself a tonne of nutrition in the long run.

Oot, but didn't regular fine meals required animal products + veggies? I never played vegetarian ideologion, can milk and eggs still considered vegetarian meal?

Yeah the game counts animal produce as vegetarian still. This does make sense as many vegetarians still eat animal products. However the same applies for fine vegetarian meals, you can add animal products in those as well. But as I stated previously, those recipes are less nutrition efficient. So there's some strange overlap.

Fine meal with rice + eggs for example = fine meal (that counts as vegetarian) for 0.5 nutrition input.
Now a vegetarian fine meal with the same ingredients costs you 0.75 nutrition for the same dish that is counted as vegetarian. So it's 50% less efficient for literally no gain from what I can see.

It is better to just set the bill to make regular 'fine meals' and then just ban meat from the ingredient list, this way you will make (vegetarian) fine meals that don't cost extra nutrition. This makes you wonder what the purpose is of the vegetarian fine meal as you can literally do the same with normal fine meals if you properly set the filter list and do it for far less nutritional waste.

The niche situation where you want to actually make vegetarian fine meals is if you purposefully don't go into collecting any animal produce and go full plant based diet for roleplay or due to situational limitations. Then it makes sense to set up bills for 'vegetarian fine meal' because you cannot make fine meals without animal produce otherwise. It's highly inefficient though but not as bad as the carnivore meals lol.

It's just confusing I think. It's probably easier to call them vegan meals as that is the only real use you can get out of them that makes sense from a practical point of view.

Someone plz scholar me and correct me if I am wrong though.

[Big [REDACTED] Marty]

Originally posted by The Blind One:

I noticed you can make regular 'fine meal' which are vegetarian due to its ingredients (raw plant food + animal produce), as well as making a 'vegetarian fine meal' (only raw plant food) which is a completely separate recipe. The difference is that regular fine meals when vegetarian in end result require far less nutrition input than the specific vegetarian fine meals. Same goes for lavish versions which are even worse.

Gives you some leeway I suppose. Vegetarian fine meals seem to be exclusively plant based whereas the normal versions allow you to add animal produce. So vegetarian fine meals are essentially vegan diets lol.

i'm not sure if anyone has told you, but eggs are not plants, nor is milk, and therefore not vegetarian

[The Blind One]

Originally posted by Big Dicc Marty:

i'm not sure if anyone has told you, but eggs are not plants, nor is milk, and therefore not vegetarian

I'm not sure if anyone has told you but vegetarian means not eating meat, unfertilized chicken eggs and milk are not meats, hence 'allowed' under the definition of vegetarianism. If you want to be plant puritan, you'd have to look at the definition of veganism. Also the most healthy human diet is a pure carnivore diet, just look it up, there's plenty of scientific evidence for it (jk, but its nice to troll)

That said. The game doesn't count animal produce as non-vegetarian. That's just what the game files say. Hell the game doesn't even allow animal products when you choose the carnivore meal plans lol, so Tynan (likely) doesn't recognize animal products as meat based as a philosophy. The game is more lenient to vegetarian diets than it is to carnivores ... kinda weird honestly. (I looked through the defs files)

In-game, you can add animal products to vegetarian meal and they will remain vegetarian. You however can't add animal products to a carnivore meal, it's just simply not allowed lol

[Big [REDACTED] Marty]

wack, carry on

[Astasia]

Originally posted by 76561198012855431:

Real game data
Starving my pawn to 45% malnutrition and then letting them recover to zero malnutrition lets him go ~2 days on 2 meals (1 day of starving to get to 45% malnutrition and 1 day + 5 hours to recover) Vs a pawn who I forced to eat just before they reached zero hunger which required 3 meals.

If you leave a colonist to their own devices (which I'm assuming you did not do in your test) then recovering from 48% malnutrition should require about 2.5 nutrition, plus an extra meal to get them above 25% hunger, so 4 meals total. It rises and falls at 2% per hour, at 1-19% malnutrition it's a 1.5x hunger rate multiplier and above that is 1.6x. So that's roughly 1.55 times base hunger rate of 1.6 per 24 hours, or 2.48 nutrition to keep them above zero. Starting at 0 hunger that's three meals leaving them at about 20% hunger (2.7 - 2.5) and they'd want to have eaten another meal by then as they are hungry below 25%. So starting at 0% hunger and 48% malnutrition, 24 hours and 4 meals later you have a fed and healthy colonist ready to continue on their normal 2 meals per day schedule.

If you micro them and make them somehow (caravan loading) eat small amounts of pemmican keeping them hovering below 25% hunger and above 1%, then you can get a benefit from going into malnutrition or just fasting your pawns in general, as hunger rate is halved below 25% and halved again below 12.5%, but this is tricky and if they have a mental break from that massive mood penalty you are screwed.

[Azrak]

Originally posted by Big Dicc Marty:

Originally posted by The Blind One:

I noticed you can make regular 'fine meal' which are vegetarian due to its ingredients (raw plant food + animal produce), as well as making a 'vegetarian fine meal' (only raw plant food) which is a completely separate recipe. The difference is that regular fine meals when vegetarian in end result require far less nutrition input than the specific vegetarian fine meals. Same goes for lavish versions which are even worse.

Gives you some leeway I suppose. Vegetarian fine meals seem to be exclusively plant based whereas the normal versions allow you to add animal produce. So vegetarian fine meals are essentially vegan diets lol.

i'm not sure if anyone has told you, but eggs are not plants, nor is milk, and therefore not vegetarian

Pays off to check your facts before being condescending ^^

[The Blind One]

Originally posted by Azrak:

Originally posted by Big Dicc Marty:

i'm not sure if anyone has told you, but eggs are not plants, nor is milk, and therefore not vegetarian

Pays off to check your facts before being condescending ^^

Maybe the guy is just confused about the terminology due to the hardcore vegans nowadays and the thin line between the two.

Vegetarianism kinda sounds like you only eat plants, but it actually means you don't eat meat. Veganism is the ideology that you only eat plant based food stuffs and stay away from animal products. It is honestly a little confusing if you only take the words at face value.