How do we feel about the idea of vassalage?

[Wolfguarde]

Since Tynan's unlikely to add this as core content (though it could lend a solid sense of purpose to the world map), I'm curious to see what the community thinks of the idea. Who knows, maybe a modder will take a liking to it and build on it.

Basically: settlements start off with a basic alignment (neutral, bandit, civil, tribal) and spawn either independent of other settlements or in vassalage to sparsely seeded "ruler" settlements. Rulers tax their vassals for a certain amount of wealth in quarterly intervals (NPC settlements would have set rates depending on the alignment of the ruler), and this tax can be paid with any resource (including human slaves/settlement members) so long as the value quota is met.

The finer details of this outside the player's settlement/s are unimportant, as they can basically be set and forgotten with the current settlement spawning mechanics. But the player can opt to start as a vassal or ruler with their choice of scenario, or as neither. If successfully raided by a hostile settlement, depending on a few factors (how many successful/failed raids the enemy settlement's made on the player, alignment, interaction history with that faction, the player/attacker's allied/enemy factions, etc) there's a chance that the attacker will offer a conditional surrender. If the player surrenders, they become a vassal of that faction and are required to provide material revenue to their overlords; failure to pay taxes would lead to the faction sending a large raid party to claim them. The player can opt to fight them, or simply let them take the tax (with an increased value quota as a penalty for not delivering it on time). Rulers in return would maintain a nearby settlement and provide military aid in the event of a raid.

The reverse also applies: A player raiding a hostile settlement could take them as a vassal, through which the player could tax that settlement for resources. The player would be able to specify what they want in taxes from an available list of the settlement's resources come tax time (chosen from the resources available on that map and from that settlement's general tech level, plus a randomly generated selection of pawns), and once selection is complete and submitted the vassal would then send their resources in a caravan or via drop pods, depending on tech level. Vassal caravans are subject to the same ambush/general event potential as player caravans, can be tracked on the map, and will produce an event alert if attacked, allowing the player to intercede and defend the caravan if they act quickly.

I like the idea of having a reason beyond the fairly simple quest system to go out and raid settlements, and for there to be consequences to defeat and a reason not to just treat a successful incoming raid as a game loss. And I'd like to see if people like the idea, and if we can generate enough interest to perhaps create the demand necessary for a modder (or the developers) to take the idea and run with it.

[Toasty_Tacos]

As a person who is currently trying to take over the world. I would be ecstatic if this feature could be implemented properly. However i wonder how much it would effect performance (i use a stupid amount of colonists)

[Wolfguarde]

In theory, it doesn't really have to at all (my programming proficiency is fairly basic, so I may be wrong here). You'd need to add values to each settlement for alignment, vassal/ruler state, and intervals at which wealth needs to be transferred if the player is a vassal or ruler. Along with the event chance (pretty much a dice roll with some factors influencing the outcome) for an atacker/defender to start the vassalage event. It could actually be pretty lightweight as a mod.

[grapplehoeker]

I have never been inclined to raid any settlement. It's just not worth it. I would far rather have a lucrative trading partner than a subdued vassal.
As for being raided, I have never lost to an incoming raid and so any terms of a conditional surrender would be thrown back in their face with their messenger's head to underline the absurdity of it. Let alone any demands for tribute.
It's an interesting idea, but I have no need for vassalage.

[Wolfguarde]

I can understand that, usually by the time I'm capable of performing raids without casualties my economic flow is good enough that they're useless to me.

With that said, though: What reward would make raids worth doing for you?

[Toasty_Tacos]

Originally posted by Wolfguarde:

I can understand that, usually by the time I'm capable of performing raids without casualties my economic flow is good enough that they're useless to me.

With that said, though: What reward would make raids worth doing for you?

A sense of pride and accomplishment

[Wiawyr]

Originally posted by Wolfguarde:

I can understand that, usually by the time I'm capable of performing raids without casualties my economic flow is good enough that they're useless to me.

With that said, though: What reward would make raids worth doing for you?

For me, it would be a steady flow of non-defective new recruits (pyromaniacs, chemical fascination, maybe frail/bad back as well). You can get just about everything else with some regularlity/reliability, but getting new recruits is a large RNG roll and often involves spending effort to make sure they survive where you captured them and get back to your base to sit around being recruited for months on end.

Skipping that process would make coordinating vassals worthwhile for me, otherwise it would just be roleplaying taking over the world.

[Wolfguarde]

New recruits would definitely be the most valuable regular yield from this concept. For balancing purposes, though, they'd need to be measured fairly steeply pointwise; a near-perfect recruit should be expensive, composing most or all of a quarterly tithe. That said, it makes more sense for the majority of a settlement's recruits to be drafted into service from bonded settlements than recruiting from one's prisoner base.

[Wiawyr]

I would even say that getting a good recruit would be a year's tithe. If you leave it at 4 good recruits per year pet settlement, your population is going to balloon to the unplayable level pretty fast.

[Wolfguarde]

Fair point, but that ultimately depends on their rarity. They shouldn't be showing up in every tithe selection, nor in most of them for that matter. The main driving factor should be quantity over quality; easy access to labour in hard times, or when a settlement needs expendable bodies to throw into warfare or other endeavours.