Are geothermal generators not supposed to create heat?

[Aspherical]

Started a game on a tundra map and planned to build my base around a steam geyser/eventual geothermal generator to power a greenhouse and heat some buildings. From previous runs I knew that geysers generate enough heat if in an enclosed area under a roof for some free (but uncontrollable) heating. The description on the wiki says that geothermal generators work the same way, but after building one it didn't have that effect at all. I would see a high boost in temperature in the enclosed generator's room, only for it to vanish and the temperature instantly dropped back down to the outdoor temperature, as if nothing happened.

I did some tests on a fresh map using dev tools, and it seems like you can heat up a room with steam geysers but not geothermal generators. I built a room with walls with and without a generator built over a geyser, and only the steam geyser generates heat. The geothermal generator doesn't seem to generate heat at all, which seems contradictory to the descriptions given by the wiki, and with the steam geyser itself.

I don't know if my game is bugged or something changed since the wiki entry was written or what, but I'm curious if this is how they work for other people or it's just something in my files. I do have a lot of mods running, but I also didn't see anything in the files that explained how the heat generation for steam geysers works, so I don't know.

[Chip56]

Just checked the definitions:

<ThingDef ParentName="BuildingBase">
<defName>GeothermalGenerator</defName>
<label>geothermal generator</label>
<description>Produces electricity from geothermal steam geysers. Must be placed on a steam geyser.</description>
<thingClass>Building</thingClass>
<drawerType>MapMeshAndRealTime</drawerType>
<graphicData>
<texPath>Things/Building/Power/GeothermalPlant</texPath>
<graphicClass>Graphic_Single</graphicClass>
<drawSize>(6,6)</drawSize>
<shadowData>
<volume>(6.03,1.0,5.25)</volume>
<offset>(0,0,-0.25)</offset>
</shadowData>
<damageData>
<rect>(0.3,0,5.4,6)</rect>
</damageData>
</graphicData>
<altitudeLayer>Building</altitudeLayer>
<passability>Impassable</passability>
<blockWind>true</blockWind>
<scatterableOnMapGen>false</scatterableOnMapGen>
<fillPercent>1</fillPercent>
<blockLight>true</blockLight>
<canOverlapZones>false</canOverlapZones>
<statBases>
<MaxHitPoints>500</MaxHitPoints>
<WorkToBuild>12000</WorkToBuild>
<Flammability>0.5</Flammability>
<Beauty>-30</Beauty>
</statBases>
<tickerType>Normal</tickerType>
<size>(6,6)</size>
<costList>
<Steel>340</Steel>
<ComponentIndustrial>8</ComponentIndustrial>
</costList>
<comps>
<li Class="CompProperties_Power">
<compClass>CompPowerPlantSteam</compClass>
<basePowerConsumption>-3600</basePowerConsumption>
<transmitsPower>true</transmitsPower>
</li>
<li Class="CompProperties_Breakdownable"/>
</comps>
<rotatable>false</rotatable>
<terrainAffordanceNeeded>Heavy</terrainAffordanceNeeded>
<designationCategory>Power</designationCategory>
<placeWorkers>
<li>PlaceWorker_OnSteamGeyser</li>
</placeWorkers>
<building>
<ai_chillDestination>false</ai_chillDestination>
<soundAmbient>GeothermalPlant_Ambience</soundAmbient>
<destroySound>BuildingDestroyed_Metal_Big</destroySound>
</building>
<constructEffect>ConstructMetal</constructEffect>
<designationHotKey>Misc6</designationHotKey>
<researchPrerequisites><li>GeothermalPower</li></researchPrerequisites>
<constructionSkillPrerequisite>8</constructionSkillPrerequisite>
</ThingDef>

There is no <heatPerSecond> so seems that was patched out.

[pauloandrade224]

Well it does make sense when u think about it you are using the heat to produce electricity and the thing has to not let heat pass to do so.


I mean a heater on the room will fix the issue at least.

[Holce]

Maybe you should check the steam geyser instead. I think this is the one that was generating heat when the steam was going out. So it not heat par second but heat per geyser or somethink.

ps: pauloandrodrade224 may be right. The heat generated may have been removed because of that.

[pauloandrade224]

Originally posted by Holce:

Maybe you should check the steam geyser instead. I think this is the one that was generating heat when the steam was going out. So it not heat par second but heat per geyser or somethink.

Its actually much simpler than that really.

The geyser 'Building' generates heat.

When u place the Geothermal power thingy it stops producing heat (cause said heat is now electricity)

[AlTurGo]

You are not able to use all heat energy to produce electricity IRL. You can absorb up to 40% of energy in high productivity cases...

I understand reasons of simplifications in games... But this game has a lot of productivity and capacity factors in other cases, but not with geothermal energy...

[Astasia]

The mechanics of geothermal generators hasn't changed, they still produce plenty of heat. You probably have a mod breaking it or you are trying to heat too large a room or one that is not properly enclosed.

[Aspherical]

Originally posted by Astasia:

The mechanics of geothermal generators hasn't changed, they still produce plenty of heat. You probably have a mod breaking it or you are trying to heat too large a room or one that is not properly enclosed.

None of the mods I'm using change any of the temperature mechanics, nor modify the steam geysers or geothermal generators. I tested this last night and I couldn't get any heat out of the geothermal generator after walling it in and roofing it through using godmode and dev tools, whereas the steam geyser quickly heated up the room. Besides, I was looking at the main game files, and the geothermal generator doesn't seem to have a value for creating heat. Then again, I checked the building info for the geyser, and it didn't have a heat generating value either. So now I'm extra unsure of how it's supposed to work.

Do you need space around the room with the geothermal generator for it to make heat? I was just building walls hugging its edges to save space, but maybe some additional space is necessary? That doesn't make sense either, but I'll see if that changes anything. Maybe it's what the wiki means by a "one tile corridor around the generator"?

[desrtfox071]

Originally posted by Aspherical:

Originally posted by Astasia:

The mechanics of geothermal generators hasn't changed, they still produce plenty of heat. You probably have a mod breaking it or you are trying to heat too large a room or one that is not properly enclosed.

None of the mods I'm using change any of the temperature mechanics, nor modify the steam geysers or geothermal generators. I tested this last night and I couldn't get any heat out of the geothermal generator after walling it in and roofing it through using godmode and dev tools, whereas the steam geyser quickly heated up the room. Besides, I was looking at the main game files, and the geothermal generator doesn't seem to have a value for creating heat. Then again, I checked the building info for the geyser, and it didn't have a heat generating value either. So now I'm extra unsure of how it's supposed to work.

Do you need space around the room with the geothermal generator for it to make heat? I was just building walls hugging its edges to save space, but maybe some additional space is necessary? That doesn't make sense either, but I'll see if that changes anything. Maybe it's what the wiki means by a "one tile corridor around the generator"?

First, if you haven't already, make your test using no mods at all.

Second, yes, you will almost definitely need space around the generators. The generator counts as a blocking structure, similar to a wall, so if you don't have space, as far as the game is concerned, you just made a big, fancy solid wall.

[glass zebra]

This is from an unmoded save that I just loaded:

As you can see it's 465°C in the generator room:
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/1822271431471659736/93DD9211849CB32C7B8A9BE68876E83AFFC21DF5/

It still drops to -12°C:
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/1822271431471679639/64EC71A22F4ACFDC27C1096CCE2EFB54AF4AC65F/

If you remove a wall and give it some space, it slowly heats up the room instead:
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/1822271431471692658/3829C8F8A0B4EE96DB367EF56748398D2F9E5682/

[Aspherical]

Originally posted by desrtfox071:

First, if you haven't already, make your test using no mods at all.

Second, yes, you will almost definitely need space around the generators. The generator counts as a blocking structure, similar to a wall, so if you don't have space, as far as the game is concerned, you just made a big, fancy solid wall.

I tested the second part, since uninstalling every mod I have would take a lot of time, and turns out that's where I was going wrong. Geothermal generators will create heat, but only if they are roofed in with at least one additional walled-in tile. Enclosing the generator on its own will not generate heat, but if there's one free tile (unoccupied by a door or anything else) the geothermal will blast the room it's in with hot air, with all the consequences that provides.

This does strike me as a bug though, since no other heat-producing generator works this way. Both fueled generators will heat up a room if they're completely walled and roofed in to one, so why would the generator that produces much, much more heat have all that temperature up and vanish, regardless of the outside temperatures? I suppose I understand why they game's coding would do it this way, but it doesn't make much sense to me for it to work that way.

Anyway, thanks for all the responses, I appreciate the help figuring this out!

[glass zebra]

Originally posted by Aspherical:

This does strike me as a bug though, since no other heat-producing generator works this way. Both fueled generators will heat up a room if they're completely walled and roofed in to one, so why would the generator that produces much, much more heat have all that temperature up and vanish, regardless of the outside temperatures? I suppose I understand why they game's coding would do it this way, but it doesn't make much sense to me for it to work that way.

Normal generators can be walked/crawled over, geothermal generators can not. Just think about the size different of those two. The geo one is basically giant in height. They are mostly like walls and not like furniture.

[Aspherical]

Originally posted by glass zebra:

Normal generators can be walked/crawled over, geothermal generators can not. Just think about the size different of those two. The geo one is basically giant in height. They are mostly like walls and not like furniture.

I don't get why size would make any difference though. If heat is generated it has to go somewhere. I figured it would get incredibly hot inside, perhaps hot enough for the generator to explode or combust. Instead the heat just disappears like it was never there. If the heat is supposed to spike up and then down again, the temperature should at least decrease at the same rate that it increases, or at the rate it would decrease in any other situation of heat loss.

I'm not a physicist, but I don't see how the temperature of a room should spike up to several hundred degrees over several seconds, and then *instantly* drop below freezing because that's how cool it is outside. Unless the implication is that the steam leaves through the roof or something, but that makes even less sense since heat doesn't escape through roofing in any other circumstance.

[desrtfox071]

Originally posted by Aspherical:

Originally posted by glass zebra:

Normal generators can be walked/crawled over, geothermal generators can not. Just think about the size different of those two. The geo one is basically giant in height. They are mostly like walls and not like furniture.

I don't get why size would make any difference though. If heat is generated it has to go somewhere. I figured it would get incredibly hot inside, perhaps hot enough for the generator to explode or combust. Instead the heat just disappears like it was never there. If the heat is supposed to spike up and then down again, the temperature should at least decrease at the same rate that it increases, or at the rate it would decrease in any other situation of heat loss.

I'm not a physicist, but I don't see how the temperature of a room should spike up to several hundred degrees over several seconds, and then *instantly* drop below freezing because that's how cool it is outside. Unless the implication is that the steam leaves through the roof or something, but that makes even less sense since heat doesn't escape through roofing in any other circumstance.

The issue is, there is no room. For a "room" to exist, there must be an indoor tile that is not a wall, non-traversable, etc.

[glass zebra]

Originally posted by Aspherical:

I don't get why size would make any difference though. If heat is generated it has to go somewhere. I figured it would get incredibly hot inside, perhaps hot enough for the generator to explode or combust. Instead the heat just disappears like it was never there. If the heat is supposed to spike up and then down again, the temperature should at least decrease at the same rate that it increases, or at the rate it would decrease in any other situation of heat loss.

I'm not a physicist, but I don't see how the temperature of a room should spike up to several hundred degrees over several seconds, and then *instantly* drop below freezing because that's how cool it is outside. Unless the implication is that the steam leaves through the roof or something, but that makes even less sense since heat doesn't escape through roofing in any other circumstance.

Don't try to real life logic it. It's just a game and I was just trying to point out the difference of those generators.

[brian_va]

Originally posted by glass zebra:

Originally posted by Aspherical:

This does strike me as a bug though, since no other heat-producing generator works this way. Both fueled generators will heat up a room if they're completely walled and roofed in to one, so why would the generator that produces much, much more heat have all that temperature up and vanish, regardless of the outside temperatures? I suppose I understand why they game's coding would do it this way, but it doesn't make much sense to me for it to work that way.

Normal generators can be walked/crawled over, geothermal generators can not. Just think about the size different of those two. The geo one is basically giant in height. They are mostly like walls and not like furniture.

Would the geothermal generator count as a wall under overhead mountain to stop bugs from spawning?