Animal farming frustration

[Païtiti]

I want to know how you guys manage animals in Rimworld. I love animals and I love to have them in Rimworld but I feel especially after the recent update including pens they are kind of not really worth it. Dont get me wrong I do agree with the update. I found it always rather strange to be able to tell a bunch of chickens to stay exactly at a THAT spot and stay there forever even when starving. Chickens just dont behave like that and so do other animals.

But not it feels it is a decision you have to make to either have farming animals or have no farming animals at all. A middle ground of "having a few farming animals to support the kitchen" is not really worth it. My issue is that animals eat too much and take way too much time to care for. They eat so ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ much that you have to constantly make sure they have grazing grounds. So you have to take a huge portion of the map if you want them to graze. That is simply not realistic and true for certain animals. A chicken eats about 1.5kg of feed per week, so a bit more than 200g a day. I have not collected all the numbers ingame but it feels a Rimworld chicken needs waaaaaay more than that. So you have to feed them if you dont want half the map for grazing. So you have to grow hay, make kibble etc. which takes a lot of time and is eaten up quite quickly. Furthermore having grazing grounds makes you vulnerable big time. Time and time again pawns will collect ressources from animals and drop them within doors letting all the animals out. Sappers/breachers will sooner or later do the same. It's just a big mess to collect 50 chicken scattered across the map....

While chicken are okay as they lay eggs automaticially into the baskets animals that need work such as cows or sheep are even worse as pawns will run onto the grazing grounds to sheer/milk etc. leave the stuff on the floor and do something else. Even if you set a pawn to only animals and hauling they will run around the map ineffectively.
I even tried setting zones for hauling animals to collect the stuff but this seems also not very viable because then you have to train those animals, feed them as well while they do a less than perfect job.

So, okay let's say grazing is not an option because of your biome or map and you want animals to stay in a barn. That's great because then your handlers dont have to run across the map. They can actually collect animal ressources as intended and bring them to the stockpile. The issue here is as mentioned above the hunger rate of the animals. As they eat all the food in no time you need somebody to grow food full for them full time. A cow for example has half of the hunger rate of a pawn so it basicially eats a meal worth of food a day. This food has to come from somewhere so you have to grow it. If you are able to grow food then why would you feed it to an animal as you can eat it yourself.

Before 1.3 I usually always had animals but now it kinda feels not worth it. Especially vanilla farming animals simply feel like too much work and too much of a hazzle if you dont go all out ranching. As a side hustle it seems not worth it. Or maybe it is? What are your guy's thoughts on that and more importantely how do you manage to run your farm even a small one efficiently?

[Jaggid Edje]

I built my animal pen where the refrigerator was through a door to the north and the storage stockpile where I keep textiles was right to the south. Short distance for hauling all animal products.

As for food, Hay and Kibble are what I use to supplement their grazing and I really don't agree that it it takes very much time. I currently have 8 thrumbos, 4 cows, 2 camels, 6 horses, 8 adult chickens, 6 elephants, 2 rhinoceros, 1 Megaspider, 4 panthers and 2 house cats plus whatever young all of them have at any given time.
A single hay field sized 12 x 16 is sufficient to keep them all fed.

Mind you, I do make kibble from hay and insect meat but I also leave hay in their pasture so they eat whichever they want. Kibble making is stupid fast so I don't even notice pawns making it.

Considering all the elephants and thrumbos I have, and they eat a lot...I just can't see how a small "hobby" farm can even be considered to be a lot of time for feeding them.

[Païtiti]

Pawn hunger rate is 1.6. A thrumbo has 2.8, thus nearly +50% more meaning it eats food worth 3 meals a day. That'd be 24 meals a day just for the thrumbos. Elephants have 2.6 and Rhinos 1.6 so that's about another 20 meals worth of food. Adding all the other animals onto that you'd need around about 75 meals or more worth of food. Per day.

I dont want to do the math but this never ever works out.

[Cannenses]

There's actually a lot of depth to the "animals" part of the game. At least, I think so anyway. So, it boils down to what role(s) do you have in mind.

In order of complexity:
1. As food, i.e. meat, eggs & milk -- use pens and auto-cull
2. As brawlers, i.e. protection/fighting -- rhinos is the classic and don't train the rest (bears, elephants, panthers, etc.) for rescue and hauling work.
3. As community/colony participants, i.e. rescue and hauling -- this automatically makes them brawlers (in training) unless you don't want them to, which requires you to zone them out of a fight because, inevitably, they'll "innocently stray" into a firefight.

In my trial and error, I found that using animals progressively (the order of Food > Protection > Colony (nearly) Pawn) was the best way to slowly learn how to use animals well. It took me a few games to understand, and use, this increasing complexity.

Learning how to use zones well was the key (again, for me).

Btw, I have never found the pens itself provided sufficient food for any number of animals that I needed (say hens, for their eggs). So, I've always used a barn with hay stocked (animal flaps as doors).

[Jaggid Edje]

Originally posted by 123:

Pawn hunger rate is 1.6. A thrumbo has 2.8, thus nearly +50% more meaning it eats food worth 3 meals a day. That'd be 24 meals a day just for the thrumbos. Elephants have 2.6 and Rhinos 1.6 so that's about another 20 meals worth of food. Adding all the other animals onto that you'd need around about 75 meals or more worth of food. Per day.

I dont want to do the math but this never ever works out.

Thrumbos also are area not pen animals, so I imagine grazing makes up a good portion of their diet when it's not winter. The same goes for Elephants.
My hay supply decreases drastically in winter as well, which is a further indication they graze frequently when they can. By autumn I usually have 8,000 or so hay, by the end of winter I'm usually almost out.

For the pen animals, I have a grow zone in their pen where I plant grass (from a mod, but it's the same as dandelions in vanilla). I use the Smart Farming mod so that my growers don't waste time planting in their pen except when at least 20% of the space needs sowing. So they also graze as a good portion of their diet when it's not winter.

[sooshon]

What climate is the map you are playing? I think a lot of the effectiveness depends on that. For example last year I was playing on a far northern boreal forest map with a cave base and I tried farming thrumbos; the growing season was such that I had to immediately start growing hay at the first sight of spring and get it harvested (sometimes didn't manage to harvest it fully) and pack 30,000 - 40,000 hay in the cave to make sure the thrumbos could make it through the winter (along with some pack animals); some of it was extra reserves in case a cold snap hit in which case it would destroy a whole year's crop without any chance to re-sow in time; mixing insect meat with the hay to make kibble was pretty necessary to make the process sustainable at one point (there was endless insect meat from huge occasional insect events). The thrumbos would also have to be put out first thing when the scant vegetation started growing outside to save on hay during the 1/3 of the year they could just barely manage to survive off the vegetation of the entire map.

On the other hand, a playthrough I started recently is in a warm jungle where there is an abundance of plant life growing at fast rates and year-round. When I eventually get around to taming thrumbos hopefully, it would be easy to support a large number with no micromanagement and just letting them graze around the map year-round.

I know your question is about animals in pens mostly, and while I'm pretty new to the updated mechanics since I haven't played in a while, I think the same stuff applies. If the plant growth rate is faster and the grazing seasons are going to be longer, you won't require as much or any hay growing, the pens can be smaller if they are more productive which will in turn decrease hauling distance etc. Seems like maybe animal husbandry is just going to be better suited to certain climates?

PS: thrumbos can go through an insane amount of hay if they don't have access to grazing (you can easily calculate it using the nutrition of hay and their requirements) so I'm thinking Jaggid Edje's animals are mostly eating grass :P

[Erei]

It's on design. Rimworld is heavily inspired by dwarf fortress (it's basically DF lite), and one of the most easy thing you can do in DF is to be entirely self sufficient. You can build your entire city underground, with no access to the outside, and still have the highest tier food and everything.

Which is why kibble needs meat. And why for the longest time all the meals above simple had meat in them.
Tynan specifically said it was on purpose, so the player would neet to hunt, since there is a part of risk, and it's not entirely automatic like farming.
As such, ranching was rather poor, so we couldn't have animals and skip the whole hunting part.

Still, it was buffed twice, I think. I don't expect we'll see much more.

[pmutzu]

my animal pen is simply in the same zone as my crops. i use tilled soil mod. so them eating the crops is no biggie. i overproduce crops. i always go for a pair of mating animals. then only keep female siblings , eventually moving up to two males. by that point its just a matter of culling all those children.

[Crim]

Originally posted by 123:

Before 1.3 I usually always had animals but now it kinda feels not worth it. Especially vanilla farming animals simply feel like too much work and too much of a hazzle if you dont go all out ranching. As a side hustle it seems not worth it. Or maybe it is? What are your guy's thoughts on that and more importantely how do you manage to run your farm even a small one efficiently?

What?

Before 1.3 animals were a massive hassle and questionably worth it...

In 1.3 they are insanely smooth sailing and extremely easy to manage with the auto slaughter feature...

I currently have +100 Guinea Pigs in my game and the sheer amount of Meat and Fur they generate is absurd

I literally have 3 Cooks/Butcher to manage it

100+ Piggies is only 16 hunger rate, the same as 10 Pawns

[Païtiti]

Originally posted by Talamare:

Originally posted by 123:

Before 1.3 I usually always had animals but now it kinda feels not worth it. Especially vanilla farming animals simply feel like too much work and too much of a hazzle if you dont go all out ranching. As a side hustle it seems not worth it. Or maybe it is? What are your guy's thoughts on that and more importantely how do you manage to run your farm even a small one efficiently?

What?

Before 1.3 animals were a massive hassle and questionably worth it...

In 1.3 they are insanely smooth sailing and extremely easy to manage with the auto slaughter feature...

I currently have +100 Guinea Pigs in my game and the sheer amount of Meat and Fur they generate is absurd

I literally have 3 Cooks/Butcher to manage it

100+ Piggies is only 16 hunger rate, the same as 10 Pawns

*sigh* Guinea Pigs are not the "farming animals" I'm talking about. Same as the Thrumbos earlier.... They are zoning animals. You can literally tell them where to go and eat. Ofc this is easily done as all animals behaved like that before 1.3 and not issue. The question is how to efficiently run a farm.

[Crim]

Originally posted by 123:

Originally posted by Talamare:

What?

Before 1.3 animals were a massive hassle and questionably worth it...

In 1.3 they are insanely smooth sailing and extremely easy to manage with the auto slaughter feature...

I currently have +100 Guinea Pigs in my game and the sheer amount of Meat and Fur they generate is absurd

I literally have 3 Cooks/Butcher to manage it

100+ Piggies is only 16 hunger rate, the same as 10 Pawns

*sigh* Guinea Pigs are not the "farming animals" I'm talking about. Same as the Thrumbos earlier.... They are zoning animals. You can literally tell them where to go and eat. Ofc this is easily done as all animals behaved like that before 1.3 and not issue. The question is how to efficiently run a farm.

This type of farming was definitely not feasible before auto slaughter existed
I also have 50+ Camels, there isn't much of a trick here
I have a small fridge next to the main fridge that is next to the small Camel pen that I place Simple Meals for the Camels to Eat

The total amount of grazing is about a dozen or so rough tiles that I grow Dandelions, since this is a desert map...


Edit - Also, why does your pen need a door? unless you're taking out the animals, the Rancher can climb over the fence...

As for animals that need a door (like my camels because of caravans), I double door it, I've yet to have much issues with double doors, but if I noticed it still being a problem I would probably just triple door it

[ASMR gaming]

theres a mod to put all animals back to 1.2 in terms of doing away with pens and having them behave as before OP here u go https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2557943599

[Markus Reese]

Two keys for efficient farming. 1. Animals breed far faster now so you dont need to keep huge numbers.

2. Grazing as stated.

It doesnt take as big of areas as suspected, particularily the bigger animals. Chickens can give a false impression when free range because eating grown crops and grass can overfeed.

Consider with meat livestock, it isnt the adult consumption that matters. It is consumption up to adult life. Many animals are nutritionally positive, ie will get more raw meat when butchered upon full growth than the nutrition given. Is possible to go all Kobe beef and raise your cows on hydroponic rice efficiently in winter.

Of course one factor nobody mentions is to include gestation time for next generation in this math, but still works out well, especially in grazing.

The one hard part is ensuring the pen is protected and not completely slaughtered in a raid.

I am playing a colony in a cold climate. Winter (40d) they spend indoors, eating my single hay harvest and breeding. Spring comes, and forage. Once winter rolls around, I slaughter the excess caused by previous fall and spring's births. Commence meatsplosion!

[Darzan]

I started new map and since I had some animal skill, I decided to get those camels out there. Before I know I have dog, 6 camels, 3 elephants, boomrat and 8 chickens which randy dropped on me. And yes - one pawn to take care of them. Let me say that this is kind of difficult to manage. Have to release them out at morning and rope them in at afternoon. Elephants and dog are nice though and can pretty much take care of themselves. I barely have time to to cook food and build. I made some kibble for rainy days and taming.

What I must say is that having animals is kind of fun but much more difficult then having extra pawns. Real problem comes how game evaluates this situation. It kind of thinks that it is ok to send 3 groups on 7 pawns to attack my camp - luckily enough that was just quest.

[Crim]

Originally posted by Darzan:

I started new map and since I had some animal skill, I decided to get those camels out there. Before I know I have dog, 6 camels, 3 elephants, boomrat and 8 chickens which randy dropped on me. And yes - one pawn to take care of them. Let me say that this is kind of difficult to manage. Have to release them out at morning and rope them in at afternoon. Elephants and dog are nice though and can pretty much take care of themselves. I barely have time to to cook food and build. I made some kibble for rainy days and taming.

What I must say is that having animals is kind of fun but much more difficult then having extra pawns. Real problem comes how game evaluates this situation. It kind of thinks that it is ok to send 3 groups on 7 pawns to attack my camp - luckily enough that was just quest.

or don't rope them in the afternoon?

They come home by themselves if you give them beds

[Thundercracker]

Originally posted by Erei:

It's on design. Rimworld is heavily inspired by dwarf fortress (it's basically DF lite), and one of the most easy thing you can do in DF is to be entirely self sufficient. You can build your entire city underground, with no access to the outside, and still have the highest tier food and everything.

Which is why kibble needs meat. And why for the longest time all the meals above simple had meat in them.
Tynan specifically said it was on purpose, so the player would neet to hunt, since there is a part of risk, and it's not entirely automatic like farming.
As such, ranching was rather poor, so we couldn't have animals and skip the whole hunting part.

Still, it was buffed twice, I think. I don't expect we'll see much more.

now i remember why i originally put rimworld down. it is stupid frustrating to have a dev just go out of their way to nerf player tactics.

especially in a sandbox game.