Is it just me or is the Psychopath trait just a little too strong?

[MonkeyMummyMoney]

There's no downsides, no requirements, they aren't more likely to do bad things and they're basically 3-4 other traits combined.

What if they would sometimes ignore your wishes entirely and the only break they can experience is Berserk or... They will ever so often mark a pawn or animal as their "Target" and stalk them until eventually killing them in the most horrific way possible?

As is it seems like a trait with no downsides and doesn't have anything to do with it's namesake.

[ephemeraltoast]

The downsides are: they will never bond with an animal and get the bonded mood bonus. They will basically never like other people since their socializing is so stunted, which means both that they are unlikely to date/get married and enjoy relationship mood bonuses and that they are likely to have many rivals and therefore do more insulting and start social fights.

Lots of people would consider that a fair tradeoff, but it does have downsides.

[Crim]

Really? I thought it was pretty pointless...

If I made a tier list of traits, it would probably be C tier for my personal playstyle

Fast Learner, Tough, Quick Sleeper, Sanguine, Industrious, Trigger Happy would be A tier stuff

[Raymond]

they are almost incapable of getting marriage, and even by an odd chance that they do, they don't gain anything from one of the game most powerful buffs. Plus not all the trait has to have downside, some traits are just outright boon like sanguine and nimble and psychopath are among the stronger ones.
Also, just because someone is a psychopath and morally questionable, doesn't mean they have tendency to commit crime. If they do commit crime it wouldn't be for fun, that's what sociopath do.

[GeneralVeers]

Yes, there are indeed some traits that are overpowered.

Why shouldn't there be??

The catch is, you don't control WHICH pawns get those overpowered traits. You might start with one. It might be six months before you get one. You might NEVER get one. (well, unless you hack the save file and edit the overpowered traits into the game.......)

Side note: I'm not a huge fan of the way Tynan changed the Undergrounder trait. I vote that it be changed back.

[Kittenpox]

Originally posted by GeneralVeers:

Side note: I'm not a huge fan of the way Tynan changed the Undergrounder trait. I vote that it be changed back.

What was the change to Undergrounder?

[MonkeyMummyMoney]

All the perceived downsides to Psychopath still feel grossly out of proportion to never getting a negative mood buff from death, cannibalism, selling slaves or harvesting organs.

Originally posted by YariMurai:

t just because someone is a psychopath and morally questionable, doesn't mean they have tendency to commit crime. If they do commit crime it wouldn't be for fun, that's what sociopath do.

The way the game presents Psychopath it kind of is. When one imagines Psychopaths, they often think of Serial-Killers and people that get involved in high-crimes such as slave trading and large-scale drug trafficking.

Originally posted by GeneralVeers:

Why shouldn't there be??

Well no reason I suppose, it's just not a very immersive trait and kind of boring because of it. There's no real issue to work around.

Whenever I see someone with that trait it's an instant, without thinking, get because of how powerful of a trait it really is.

Like I said, it's basically three other traits combined without any of their downsides.

Originally posted by ephemeraltoast:

date/get married and enjoy relationship mood bonuses and that they are likely to have many rivals and therefore do more insulting and start social fights.

Lots of people would consider that a fair tradeoff, but it does have downsides.

Double-Edged Sword: Yes, they aren't likely to get married, but that also means you wont have to worry about mood debuffs, Your normal pawns can get rejected debuffs, but that only illustrates how much stronger of a trait it is when compared to everything else.

The Trade-Off just isn't really there. You can't bond with animals, oh no. You get no negative mood buff from corpses, bodies, killing, selling slaves and eating people. The only downside is no mood boost from talking to other pawns, but even then that's hardly an issue and doesn't come close to to tipping the scales even an inch.

I mean yes, you have two other slots and run the risk of useless traits, but you also have two slots and run the risk of good ones. Even "Bad" Traits can still be very powerful with a psychopath.

It doesn't even conflict with anything outside of Kind.


Point is Psychopath is just one of those things that you can't go wrong with. I don't even think it gives an inherent mood debuff to those around it, which you really can't explain that away. You want to say Psycho's aren't all violent criminals, fine. Weak argument, not a ton of stuff in your favor, but whatever. You can't say that people are perfectly fine around other people who are Pyscho's. There's always an uneasy feeling, a slowly creeping sense of dread and the thought that when you muster up the courage to look them in the eyes the only thing looking back at you is a Beast or nothing at all. The nothingness it's self can be mildly uncomfortable. You never feel "safe" and are always on edge.

Psychopaths are literally just the apex predator. Sociopaths find it hard to form emotions and empathize with others, Psycho's can mimic both perfectly, but never truly feel it.
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[Jaggid Edje]

I don't think it's a bad trait but I don't agree that it's particularly amazing.

Pawns that are married and sleeping together pretty consistently have a +25 or more total of mood gains from being married and getting some lovin' once one of them is fitted with a love enhancer.

The pscyhopath trait doesn't come anywhere close to preventing a total of -25 in mood debuffs at once, particularly when you consider that half of the ones you mentioned don't bother non-psychopaths either unless your ideology is setup to make it bother them.

[GeneralVeers]

Originally posted by Kittenpox:

Originally posted by GeneralVeers:

Side note: I'm not a huge fan of the way Tynan changed the Undergrounder trait. I vote that it be changed back.

What was the change to Undergrounder?

Undergrounders are now unhappy when outdoors (-3), and the only way they can get happy is if they're under a MOUNTAIN roof. Not a building roof, but an actual mountain. They're basically always going to have that -3 unless you're a mole colony.

[MonkeyMummyMoney]

A more balanced, immersive rework should be they keep their traits (Obviously. I have no problem with them) They have a minor AOE mood debuff that slowly plays out around those around them. They sometimes do things you didn't tell them to, will sometimes stalk other pawns for recreation. This stalking can cause a mood debuff. They will also ignore your memes if they conflict with their trait, which if spotted can cause a mood debuff for the colony (Not them. Psychopaths can comprehend right from wrong, they understand law and order and that they must abide by it. They just don't care, feeding their own desires is all that matters. Oh, this would also mean that if your Religion conflicts with their trait they literally can not be converted. You could try and the meter for it would still go up and down, but it would be a fake conversion. They will only do and say what they need to.) They can kill outside pawns with no faction penalty if they aren't seen doing it, they will even try to "Lure" trade caravan people and visitors away some place private to do it. They research faster (To reflect that they tend to be well educated) They have higher social stat percents when recruiting or trading (To reflect the social chameleon like nature of them) and, of course, their version of a break is that they will randomly stalk someone and then proceed to kill them and hide the body if their "Hunger" meter gets too low (Hunger would replace Mood. Things that would lower their mood normally, seeing rotting corpses, being uncomfortable, ext would lower it as would not feeding their desires.) upon a successful kill their meter resets, all negative mood debuffs are reduced slightly, they do everything slightly better and they take slightly less damage from all sources (To reflect the euphoria) for a few days and none predator animals are more likely to run away from them and predator animals are more likely to attack them. They are better Melee fighters and any people/critters they kill with melee would boost their "Hunger" meter, but only slightly, with animals giving even less of a boost.

It's never been explicitly proven, but there have been IRL interviews with Psychopaths in the past where they seem to almost know when one of their own is around them. So... Maybe they get a mood boost whenever someone else with the trait enters the map?

They are also inherently neater and do everything just slightly better to reflect how they tend to be more organized.

Harvesting organs, Executing people (Or just being present for it) being near freshly dead bodies and those in pain, taking slaves and selling slaves all boost the hunger meter as well.


It would turn it from a bland but powerful trait that you would be a fool to not recruit someone with to a very powerful trait with equally powerful downsides. Arguably the only downsides that actually matter. This trait can literally kill other pawns. If you aren't careful it can take a colony with 12 people down to a colony of two in just a few months. Would such a person be worth keeping? can you sustain it and can you ensure that there are always eyes on your pawns? They will only ever strike when no-one is looking.

You also would have an Event where Psychopaths would wander in. They aren't announced when they arrive, they just linger around the edges of your colony, waiting for someone to walk out alone. (Basically the human version of Manhunter) If you have a psychopath in your colony as well they will stop what they are doing and confront the other one, with a big prompt telling you about it.

If a trader or visitor also has the trait they too can lure your pawns away and kill them, forcing you to rethink trading spots and always have eyes on them at all times.

It goes without saying but this is just my suggestion and I don't mean that it should replace what we have now. Realistically I'd just be content if they gave Psychopath some sort of downside because as is it kind of doesn't have any. At least not any meaningful ones that are harder to work around.

[Raymond]

Originally posted by Vaniity Velvet:

Double-Edged Sword: Yes, they aren't likely to get married, but that also means you wont have to worry about mood debuffs, Your normal pawns can get rejected debuffs, but that only illustrates how much stronger of a trait it is when compared to everything else.

The Trade-Off just isn't really there. You can't bond with animals, oh no. You get no negative mood buff from corpses, bodies, killing, selling slaves and eating people. The only downside is no mood boost from talking to other pawns, but even then that's hardly an issue and doesn't come close to to tipping the scales even an inch.

Unless your dining room and corpse storage is the same room and you constantly butchering prisoners and selling slaves, psychopath isn't as good as you make it out to be. It's far quicker and easier to build a functional colony where you do not have to rely killing, selling, organ harvesting or butchering human to survive, than to wait and recruit an all psychopath colony. Obviously, killing, butchering and selling human isn't going to be a smart move just because you have one psychopath pawn in your colony.
Meanwhile, with the right set up 2 of any married pawns can get upward to 20+ mood bonus almost all the time throughout their entire marriage, easily tanking any of the debuffs you mentioned, none of which last more than a few days. And psychopath pawns do not get access to that op buff just so they can sell some slaves once in a while.

[Crim]

As I read thru other people discussing this Trait...

I think I was too generous with my rating it a C tier Trait

It makes you lose a ton of benefits, and the reward is to make an incredibly inefficient colony

In short, Psychopath trait is only good if you roleplay a Psychopath with the cannibalism and the black market organ harvesting

[Jaggid Edje]

Why do people keep talking about selling slaves like it's a big deal?

In my current game, one precept is giving me a mood BOOST for everyone in the colony when I sell a slave. In the game before that, selling slaves had no mood impact at all, but rather only a small social cost for whomever interacted with the trader to whom the slaves were sold.

The only time you get a mood debuff from selling slaves is if you set your ideology up so that it's frowned upon. Which is...you know, player choice.

[MonkeyMummyMoney]

Originally posted by YariMurai:

It's far quicker and easier to build a functional colony

Who said anything about functional?
Most people who play Rimworld do so for the same reason they play Sims, to live out their own sick, ♥♥♥♥♥♥ up fantasies and finding out ways to make it work. lol

Yeah, I could have a normal colony and play by the rules until eventually Randy or Cassandra have enough of me. Or, I could be so ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ out there that it makes it very hard for them to do anything to me that isn't some kind of a gain. lol

[MonkeyMummyMoney]

Originally posted by Jaggid Edje:

Why do people keep talking about selling slaves like it's a big deal?

Because not everyone has the DLC that doesn't make it a big deal or have the interest in setting it up so that it's not. Some people just want to slap random and get going.

[GeneralVeers]

Originally posted by Talamare:

In short, Psychopath trait is only good if you roleplay a Psychopath with the cannibalism and the black market organ harvesting

Disagree here. I can think of at least one other good use for a psychopath.

In my first play of this game, I was having a problem getting rid of corpses after raids; my hauler animals were slacking off, so my pawns kept taking big mood hits from seeing half a dozen rotting corpses.

I really, REALLY wanted a psychopath to join. Somebody who could get rid of all the bodies without being bothered by them, so the whole colony could avoid the mood hits.

Well, I finally DID get a psychopath colonist.

Who was "incapable of dumb labor" and therefore refused to perform hauling. Meaning she would never haul corpses.

♥♥♥♥.