Shooting useless?

[NoxiousPluK]

Hi all,

I often notice that pawns with shooting 10+ will keep missing a target time after time, while raiders coming in with poor weapons and shooting 0/1/2 keep getting headshot after headshot or even insta-kill my pawns.

How can I fix this? Is it a known but or is there some mod that helps with this?

[Tarshaid]

To determine your chance to hit a target, the shooting skill is only an element amongst others. Distance, weather, the weapon's stats, and most importantly cover will have a huge impact. If you're not sure, you can check at any time the to-hit chance of your pawn against any target in range, and vice-versa (which helps checking whether the guy aiming at you has 1 or 100% chance to hit at every shot). I'm pretty sure the body part hit is random, weighted so that bigger body parts are more likely to take the blow.

Then it's all a matter of luck, and of throwing the dice often enough : ten unskilled, badly geared raiders shooting at the same target will hit something eventually. Getting headshots or instakills can happen to both sides, but you have to be extremely unlucky if that happens regularly to your pawns while they stand far away from under cover.

[AquaX]

Another is gang up on 1 target to reduce the odds of it dodging. The odds of rng able to save a target from 20 pawns throwing 1-3 volley is super slim with respect to cover and gear. In my fights I get a good chunk of my colony to focus fire on several targets, once the 1-2 volley goes out, retarget them to the next.

[McFuzz]

I don't think you are taking cover into account, which is the single most important aspect of firearm combat. Standing behind a wall and leaning out over a sandbag is the best defense, often reducing a 40%-60% hit chance to 6%-14%

Granted, unlucky RNG can always lead to a one hit kill for unarmoured pawns; get a flak vest and helmet to prevent one hit kills from basic enemies; flak pants are not mandatory to prevent one-hits because there's no vital organs in the legs.

Shooting is not useless, though. Use cover, use armour, and set up a better, more spread out defense. Make sure you clear all debris, rocks and trees from your base entrance so raiders have nowhere to take cover. Shooters who have nowhere to take cover will resort to sprinting at your defenses to melee or shooting in the open (leaving them easy targets!)

Putting all your pawns next to each other is a good way to guarentee wounds every combat. Shots at one pawn may miss that pawn and hit another!

[Vintorez]

What weapons were you using? Sniper rifles need pretty hefty shooting skill but bolt-action rifles are pretty reliable at 10.

Any health conditions on the user? Sight is very important, followed by manipulation. Having either of these weakened will ahve a big impact.

How was the weather? Foggy rain can flat out halve the chance of hitting your target.

What cover were you and the enemy using? If you're just standing out in a field and they're behind rock chunks you didn't clear, the enemy will have a huge advantage.

[Warhunter]

if i remember correctly you can select your drafted pawn and hover over their target to see the exact hit % and all the modifers that goes into determining it.

sight, manipulation, weather, cover, shooting skill, weapon accuracy, cover. all determine the chance to hit the enemy (there might be more dont remember all of them)

[NoxiousPluK]

Ok in my last example, the enemy was using a poor bolt-action rifle, my dude was using a good pistol.

About ten blocks inbetween us, I was behind a wall - he was out in the open.

Attackers shooting skill was 1, melee 0 no dodging. Wasn't high on enhancing drugs.
My dude had shooting 10, no medical issues that caused slow moving or anything.

I shot maybe 10 times, missed all. Attacker shot two times, both headshots. Second one killed my dude instantly.

I know this is a one-off example, but I've had more recent issues with stuff like this. Standing behind sandbags with 4-5 people shooting an attacker, only to have 2 dudes killed and 3 wounded while the attacker still had nothing, and also not a notable shooting skill.

I did not have these issues before, but I mostly played at A17 so its been a little while.

[Astrobia]

That's just confimation bias. Play 10 fights with 10 pawns and you are going to see 10-20 of them go down to bad luck. Same is true for the enemy but you only notice it when it happens you and you don't notice the other 9 times it doesn't happen. Same is true in reverse for the enemy. You'll only remember the times the enemy gets lucky as opposed to all the times they dont because those are the only times it causes you frustration and is memorable.

[18Incog20]

Originally posted by Tarshaid:

To determine your chance to hit a target, the shooting skill is only an element amongst others. Distance, weather, the weapon's stats, and most importantly cover will have a huge impact. If you're not sure, you can check at any time the to-hit chance of your pawn against any target in range, and vice-versa (which helps checking whether the guy aiming at you has 1 or 100% chance to hit at every shot). I'm pretty sure the body part hit is random, weighted so that bigger body parts are more likely to take the blow.

Then it's all a matter of luck, and of throwing the dice often enough : ten unskilled, badly geared raiders shooting at the same target will hit something eventually. Getting headshots or instakills can happen to both sides, but you have to be extremely unlucky if that happens regularly to your pawns while they stand far away from under cover.

I've had two of my guys (7&9 shooting) miss repeatedly while in cover while the raider in cover (shooting 3) hit both of my guys repeatedly. I had my 7 flank into cover behind and still miss more than hit. It's a little messed up. I usually end up saying f it and just resort to melee. Which never really seems to matter what the skill level is.

[Fool]

It is better not to misconstrue the shooting skill as "Accuracy stat" because that isn't how it is. Shooting skill is familiarity with shooting. The higher the skill the better that pawn is at using a gun you give them to the best of it's potential.

Even a veteran soldier will miss shots with a rifle if he's shooting in low light, in the rain and has to cope with the cover the enemy might take. If you want to maximize your lethality you need to find creative ways to put enemy pawns into situations where their situation is so poor that you beat them out. Try to build with a preferred place to fight in mind and then make that place as good for you as possible. Any pawn is bound to get hit if they have to cross a 30 tile gap of flat asphalt towards you main entry and have to do this under fire from machine guns behind sandbags.

[18Incog20]

Originally posted by Astrobia:

That's just confimation bias. Play 10 fights with 10 pawns and you are going to see 10-20 of them go down to bad luck. Same is true for the enemy but you only notice it when it happens you and you don't notice the other 9 times it doesn't happen. Same is true in reverse for the enemy. You'll only remember the times the enemy gets lucky as opposed to all the times they dont because those are the only times it causes you frustration and is memorable.

If luck is going to trump stats, then there should be a luck stat to help us understand the times it does happen.

[AlexMBrennan]

If luck is going to trump stats, then there should be a luck stat to help us understand the times it does happen.

That's literally not how anything works - have you ever experienced reality by any chance? Let's take a six sided die - do you know that it's possible to roll a 1 even though it's far more likely that you won't roll a 1? Where does your imaginary "luck stat" come in?

[NoxiousPluK]

Ok next one:

Dificulty: Basebuilder with Phoebe - First raid ~20 mins into the game, rich explorer.

I'm behind sandbags with a charge rifle - bit bad at shooting (5).
Enemy comes running towards me with a steel club.

I miss him every time, so he gets close. His first blow takes of my whole right leg and the second blow incapitates me. He is still unharmed.

He kills my animal (Boomrat) with a single blow, but does not get any wounds from the explosion.

While he runs away with a full stack of Glitterworld Medicine, my base burns to ashes due to the exploded Boomrat and my dude bleeds to death.

Suggestions?

[NoxiousPluK]

Oh also, clear daylight - no rain, no other negative modifiers. I'll try to pay attention to the hit chance next round.

[NoxiousPluK]

I have ~600 hours in this game, but for some reason the whole fighting feels a lot harder in B19.

[CellNav]

Originally posted by NoxiousPluK:

Suggestions?

Play a TRIBAL scenario ( 5 people).
Play about a dozen scenarios.
Time is your friend.