Breaching isn't realistic and not fun right now, lets change that.

[PEACEOFWAR]

Little Shadiversity inspiration here, but it makes no sense how breaches are able to bypass rock and walls so quickly, any siege would need to remove rubble from any tunneling and avoid collapse from tunneling as well. I think it would be far more interesting to see enemy's have to remove rubble, put in braces etc. But right now if I build a Castle that I think is pretty good, enemy's are just chewing threw materials like they are paper and not really being slowed down at all. Even using Plasteel doors/walls not seeing any improvement. Just my opinion but we could find a way to make sieges interesting and not so one sided right now. You should be allowed to turtle and the enemy coming to your turf shouldn't have it so easy right now.

[ZS Maeklos]

I just picked up a mission, one of those "You'll be attacked by a raid, then immediately another raid". The first raid was a siege - no big deal. While they were busy setting up their mortars (and getting shelled in return by my counterbattery fire), the second raid showed up - a breaching raid. This one, though, didn't have breaching axes or whatever. They had grenades. Like 6-7 of the 35 of them had grenades (though 3 of them were EMP grenades, which made me LOL). They weren't very smart, though. They actually started blasting through random bits of mountain rock in the middle of nowhere, and wound up killing a few of their own people who'd walk into the grenade before it exploded.

They did manage to make a mess of my defenses, though. Grenades can take out a stone wall in a single hit...but only do about 30% damage to lightleather sand bags.

I guess the key to defeating breaching raids is to build your defenses out of hyperweave (or, better, synthamide if you use Rimefeller) sand bags.

[Makeithappen]

引用自 ZS Maeklos：

I just picked up a mission, one of those "You'll be attacked by a raid, then immediately another raid". The first raid was a siege - no big deal. While they were busy setting up their mortars (and getting shelled in return by my counterbattery fire), the second raid showed up - a breaching raid. This one, though, didn't have breaching axes or whatever. They had grenades. Like 6-7 of the 35 of them had grenades (though 3 of them were EMP grenades, which made me LOL). They weren't very smart, though. They actually started blasting through random bits of mountain rock in the middle of nowhere, and wound up killing a few of their own people who'd walk into the grenade before it exploded.

They did manage to make a mess of my defenses, though. Grenades can take out a stone wall in a single hit...but only do about 30% damage to lightleather sand bags.

I guess the key to defeating breaching raids is to build your defenses out of hyperweave (or, better, synthamide if you use Rimefeller) sand bags.

sandbag the entire outside of your base I assume? haha. slow them down long enough to wipe them out.

[Raymond]

Everyone goes mad as if killbox is the only way to survive. Royalty already establish a very strong alternative defense outside killbox. And if you don't want to buy royalty download rim of magic to substitute it. Don't go tell me breach raid is op, the dlc is vanilla and mod is free.

[ZS Maeklos]

引用自 JohnWick：

sandbag the entire outside of your base I assume? haha. slow them down long enough to wipe them out.

You know....

A few colonies back, when I was building a ship to send up into orbit, I surrounded the entire construction yard with a double-thick granite wall. Then, I put a two-block-deep dumping zone around the entire wall and filled it with stone chunks.

Since a pawn needs a clear space in order to perform an action, having a two-thick layer of stone chunks kept pawns from being able to tunnel through my walls. One thick, and they can just move the chunk out of the way and start hacking. But two thick? Their tiny AI brains can't figure out to move an outer chunk in order to move an inner chunk, since they only move chunks 1 space to make room.

[The Face]

引用自 JohnWick：

引用自 XxFapGod207xX：

I haven't even had a breach raid yet - is there a minimum wealth requirement for them? I'd doubt it, since it surely can't be THAT difficult... right?

Not sure, but the trick is just being able to identify who has breach/sapper weapons.

personally I'm in the mountains and have only 2 natural entrances to my base. Makes it easy to deal with them.

They will literally go through entire mountains very quickly the way they are right now

[RCMidas]

Fine, I rescind my remarks also.

[H1tSc4n]

Just get a couple snipers and kill the breachers. Or even better, try to predict where they are going to try and breach and meet them there with your full force. Sapper raids are usually pitiful compared to normal raids and sieges. They are not a big deal unless you've always relied on killboxes.

[LIMP BISQUICK]

引用自 YariMurai：

Everyone goes mad as if killbox is the only way to survive. Royalty already establish a very strong alternative defense outside killbox. And if you don't want to buy royalty download rim of magic to substitute it. Don't go tell me breach raid is op, the dlc is vanilla and mod is free.

DLC is not vanilla.. Clearly. People often recommending DLC for solving problems that come from vanilla issues. Sketchy

[RCMidas]

The definition of vanilla is "anything that is not unofficial". DLC is vanilla. No DLC is vanilla. Mods are not vanilla. If this is the argument that we are going to be having here, we may as well give up now because it is not only pointless and counter-productive, but self-evidently not one that either side can possibly abandon.

[LIMP BISQUICK]

引用自 RCMidas：

The definition of vanilla is "anything that is not unofficial". DLC is vanilla. No DLC is vanilla. Mods are not vanilla. If this is the argument that we are going to be having here, we may as well give up now because it is not only pointless and counter-productive, but self-evidently not one that either side can possibly abandon.

Nah, there's no need to argue. You're just wrong about that one.

[RCMidas]

Point proven. So, about them breaching raids. We've had some reports that they seem slightly under-strength compared to other raid types at similar wealth levels. Does the breaching tool have a high point value that we know of or something, or is this just some kind of confirmation bias from people who got lucky in beating theirs consistently?

[Zane87]

引用自 Jibbles：

引用自 YariMurai：

Everyone goes mad as if killbox is the only way to survive. Royalty already establish a very strong alternative defense outside killbox. And if you don't want to buy royalty download rim of magic to substitute it. Don't go tell me breach raid is op, the dlc is vanilla and mod is free.

DLC is not vanilla.. Clearly. People often recommending DLC for solving problems that come from vanilla issues. Sketchy

That's not the definition of vanilla. Vanilla is unmodified, not Base game only. Your interpretation there is objectively wrong.

引用自 RCMidas：

Point proven. So, about them breaching raids. We've had some reports that they seem slightly under-strength compared to other raid types at similar wealth levels. Does the breaching tool have a high point value that we know of or something, or is this just some kind of confirmation bias from people who got lucky in beating theirs consistently?

Raids, prepared or not will Raid according to your current threat points,
Smart attackers are 5% smaller
Siege Attackers 20-35% smaller in size (35% once the threat points are above a threshold because siege is quite dangerous)
Sappers are likewise 15-40% smaller
Breach attacks start at the standard size and then successively get smaller up to 50% less raiders - all else equal.

Which means: Early on breach attackers are actually quite dangerous but get significantly less troublesome - comparatively - the better your defenses are. Which might explain the different perception of the difficulty of that raid type.

Raid: <pointsFactorCurve>
<points>
<li>0, 1</li>

Raid Smart:
<pointsFactorCurve>
<points>
<li>0, 0.95</li>

Prepare and attack:
<pointsFactorCurve>
<points>
<li>0, 1</li>

Siege:
<pointsFactorCurve>
<points>
<li>0, 0.80</li>
<li>5000, 0.65</li>
</points>

Sapper:
<pointsFactorCurve>
<points>
<li>0, 0.85</li>
<li>5000, 0.60</li>
</points>

Breach:
<pointsFactorCurve>
<points>
<li>100, 1.0</li>
<li>1000, 0.7</li>
<li>5000, 0.5</li>
</points>

[di eshor ribly]

引用自 RCMidas：

Point proven. So, about them breaching raids. We've had some reports that they seem slightly under-strength compared to other raid types at similar wealth levels. Does the breaching tool have a high point value that we know of or something, or is this just some kind of confirmation bias from people who got lucky in beating theirs consistently?

I can't seem to find official numbers for the point values, so I'm afraid confirmation bias is all I can offer you right now.

From what I can tell the breaching axe has a point cost similar to mortars (being specialized equipment), you won't find more than a couple of these in each breach raid.

They seem to have a damage multiplier against structures and a damage debuff against pawns. In one on one fights vs ... not-very-impressive melee fighters the Breacher loses 9/10 of the time. The breaching axe is a horrible melee weapon. Between the smaller amount of raiders and these being a sub-par weapon I feel extremely confident sallying forth and repelling them before they reach my walls.

Termite mechanoids though... they panic me. It's not a matter of confidence that makes me sally forth for them, but a matter of "I'd rather fight these things *anywhere* but within firing range of my walls." Their termite cannons literally and without exaggeration delete walls with 0 effort, and they seem to send more of these units compared to your axe wielding breacher.

[LIMP BISQUICK]

引用自 Zane87：

引用自 Jibbles：

DLC is not vanilla.. Clearly. People often recommending DLC for solving problems that come from vanilla issues. Sketchy

That's not the definition of vanilla. Vanilla is unmodified, not Base game only. Your interpretation there is objectively wrong.

DLC is DLC. Vanilla is base game not modified in any way. Sometimes DLC's do that. I don't claim that they're unofficial just to clarify. Been that way for ages.. I'm not gonna waste more time on the matter. That wasn't even the main point of my comment anyways.

[Zane87]

引用自 di eshor ribly：

引用自 RCMidas：

Point proven. So, about them breaching raids. We've had some reports that they seem slightly under-strength compared to other raid types at similar wealth levels. Does the breaching tool have a high point value that we know of or something, or is this just some kind of confirmation bias from people who got lucky in beating theirs consistently?

I can't seem to find official numbers for the point values, so I'm afraid confirmation bias is all I can offer you right now.

From what I can tell the breaching axe has a point cost similar to mortars (being specialized equipment), you won't find more than a couple of these in each breach raid.

They seem to have a damage multiplier against structures and a damage debuff against pawns. In one on one fights vs ... not-very-impressive melee fighters the Breacher loses 9/10 of the time. The breaching axe is a horrible melee weapon. Between the smaller amount of raiders and these being a sub-par weapon I feel extremely confident sallying forth and repelling them before they reach my walls.

Termite mechanoids though... they panic me. It's not a matter of confidence that makes me sally forth for them, but a matter of "I'd rather fight these things *anywhere* but within firing range of my walls." Their termite cannons literally and without exaggeration delete walls with 0 effort, and they seem to send more of these units compared to your axe wielding breacher.

Why not? I was busy editing my post while you posted, but raid types can be found in:
RimWorld\Data\Core\Defs\Storyteller
Within that folder there are 4 different raid strategy files which I cited in my above post, feel free to confirm yourself :)

引用自 Jibbles：

引用自 Zane87：

That's not the definition of vanilla. Vanilla is unmodified, not Base game only. Your interpretation there is objectively wrong.

DLC is DLC. Vanilla is base game not modified in any way. Sometimes DLC's do that. I don't claim that they're unofficial just to clarify. Been that way for ages.. I'm not gonna waste more time on the matter. That wasn't even the main point of my comment anyways.

No, vanilla is unmodified game, not unmodified base game. You are bending the definition.
Vanilla implies without non-dev changes, as in within the vision of the developers. That specifically includes DLC as those are by the very same devs.

Buddy, you are wrong here, plain and simple, and you repeating your different opinion won't change that.