Ideology imbalanced

[Cakes]

I feel like creating a religion from scratch is very bad if you want your game to be balanced and makes the game a little too easy.

I'm referring to traits such as collectivist (triple work speed) and the research precept (can set it to very fast x250%). I understand this is there to allow open ended roleplay but without adding drawbacks to picking these traits again, make the game too easy.

There should be like a point system (like in project zomboid) where you can pick the traits you want but at a cost. If you want more trait points you would have to pick negative traits so you can choose more.

[Krescentwolf]

Or just dont choose those memes. Try playing a blind supremacist colony... can't hit anything and the whole world hates ya... It's very much an extra hard mode.

The memes and traits all have differing impacts. You can make it as easy or hard as ya like.

[Stormsong]

This is a lack of self control issue, not an issue with the precepts. It's a singleplayer experience. Flavor is flavor. If it's optional (and it is) leave it alone. Stop trying to stuff everything into little neat boxes.

[Cakes]

Originally posted by Stormsong the Fallen:

This is a lack of self control issue, not an issue with the precepts. It's a singleplayer experience. Flavor is flavor. If it's optional (and it is) leave it alone. Stop trying to stuff everything into little neat boxes.

I'm simply trying to give constructive feedback. I understand you may not agree with me but if you believe this expansion is perfect then you can go on and keep thinking that.

[ZS Maeklos]

There's a few people like that around. Just ignore them.

[Astasia]

The research option only goes up to x150% and makes sense as an option for a high tech ideology. Tribals research at about half the normal rate, but that doesn't stop people from playing tribal. You could also consider the +50% research speed a bonus for setting up your own ideology and buying the DLC, you do have a few more things to research after all.

The workspeed precept you have misunderstood. The ideology leader has an ability on I believe a 3 day cooldown that adds +50% global workspeed to one colonist for 24 hours. This ability cooldown is shared by several other abilities, like one that boosts combat ability in a radius. The precept for collectivist just buffs that one ability to 300% duration, that's one of the bonuses for that meme.

[Hykal]

Ideology is as hard or as easy as you want it to be. It's not a game problem, it's you being given free reign to do what you want.

[ambi]

Originally posted by Hykal:

Ideology is as hard or as easy as you want it to be. It's not a game problem, it's you being given free reign to do what you want.

+1

You can customize your storyteller and difficulty modifiers. The same applies with ideology. Some are easier than others.

[Cormac]

as stated above: it is not the fault of the system, but your fault to take the easy way.

its like you were picking phoebe chillax on peaceful and start complaining the game is to easy...
only because there are options to make it easier (i.e. playing with phoebe) doesn't mean you have to pick them unless you want to make it easy on yourself.
you cal also just pick an idiology of an already existing one, or a random one, that forces you to play a playstyle you normaly don'T play, suddenly, it gets way harder on you not easier...

don't pick the hardest preset, go into custom and pull all the sliders to easiest and than complain about it...

[ZS Maeklos]

Originally posted by Ambigore:

You can customize your storyteller and difficulty modifiers. The same applies with ideology. Some are easier than others.

This. As a 'for instance', my current Ideology is Loyalist, Collectivist, Tunneler, and Human Primacy. My tribals live in a mountain base (I turned off the bug faction for this game and it does away with infestations and stuff, too) and I grow fungus instead of rice, corn, or barley. For rituals, I've got two once-a-year-events: one is a ritual flag burning to symbolize our solidarity (the Fiesta of Promises) and the other is a Social Festival (the Patriotic Festival). Other than that, I pay no attention to the ideologies of my own people, because there's nothing really to pay attention to. They like living in tunnels, eating fungus, and being happy together.

Problems only crop up when other people get throw in. New arrivals get to meet Shark, Brabaabrei's Preacher (moral guide) who gradually converts them over. Until they give up their non-fungus-eating lifestyle, there's usually a few fistfights. I had one refugee go berserk because he had to eat fungus instead of meat, and when I tried to put him down, all his refugee friends turned on me and I had to chase them through my mountain halls, stabbing them to death.

So, because I picked really low-impact memes, it doesn't really affect *my* colonists. But it does necessitate having to deal with others. And any pawn who shows up with a high Social skill, I kill out of hand - I don't want them converting my people.

[ZS Maeklos]

Originally posted by Cormac:

-snip-

Easy there, broski. No need to be so argumentative and confrontational. Try being polite and constructive instead.

[ichifish]

Originally posted by Babycakes:

Originally posted by Stormsong the Fallen:

This is a lack of self control issue, not an issue with the precepts. It's a singleplayer experience. Flavor is flavor. If it's optional (and it is) leave it alone. Stop trying to stuff everything into little neat boxes.

I'm simply trying to give constructive feedback. I understand you may not agree with me but if you believe this expansion is perfect then you can go on and keep thinking that.

Yeah man, I think your feedback is helpful. I think many commenters are also trying to be helpful by giving solutions, even if the "solution" is as unhelpful "suck it up" or "this is how this genre is supposed to work." Then again, some are just ♥♥♥♥♥.

My assumption (assumption because Ludeon likes to shroud their thinking in mystery), is that the lack of balance is 100% intentional. Here's why:

1. Balance is inherently limiting
Trying to figure out an appropriate balance for each precept would limit what can be designed (if you can't make an appropriate balance you can't have the precept), and what the player can do (if the balance to faster research is poor combat, the player can't have both).

2. Balancing is a huge resource-suck
It takes a long, long, long time to actually achieve anything close to acceptable balance, and it's mostly impossible in a game with as open-ended play as Rimworld. Given the trade off between some OP/hard precepts and waiting a year for everything to be slightly better balanced, I think we'd all rather have the DLC.

3. Balance is only for the vanilla-est vanilla
Since Ludeon embraces and expects modding they know that a large part of the community will throw balance to wind by adding mods willy-nilly. There are also a bunch of things you can do to give yourself the advantage in the vanilla game that range from clever strategies to outright exploits.

4. Basic difficulty is the simplest balance
Psycasts and royal permits from Royalty are in no way balanced. The only way to balance them is cranking up the difficulty (and/or difficult maps). That's where custom settings come in. Those are easy for players to fiddle with. I'd assume their thinking is the same with Ideology. Think faster research is too easy? Turn down harvest yields or crank up the threat scale. Think tree connection is too hard? Turn down scaria.

[Stormsong]

So because I didn't write an essay for OP, a shocking number of you have interpreted that as hostility. Even though those same people have then gone on to say the same thing just in way more words.

Fascinating. Whatever works for you lot lol. Not worth getting banned over.

[Dervish]

From the creators mouth, this game isn't about "balance" its about the stories

Originally posted by The guy who made the game:

Right. There's no intent to make every ideoligion be equally-challenging to play.

"Typical" games are about testing the player's skill and rewarding it with triumph. RimWorld really isn't - and that's a principle I've been firm on since 2013. RW is about playing with stories - triumphant, dramatic, tragic, comedic. All the emotions we can get.

The idea that every ideoligion should be equally challenging is something you'd import from games that are about skill testing in exchange for triumph emotions. That's a fine approach to game design, but RimWorld's approach is different because its goals are different.

As a simple example, if you want to make a story that is really absurdly tragic or ridiculous, it's hard to do that if every possible belief system is "balanced".

Think about the great stories you love. Most likely the situation in those stories wasn't fair or balanced.

We will be refining 1.3/Ideology. We tested it a ton but there are a lot of things you learn from a hundred thousand players that just aren't visible with 100 great testers. Of course there are places to improve it and I want to make sure all the play paths are interesting, feasible (if difficult), not frustrating, feel distinct.

However these play paths also have to be evaluated in the context of what they are - if you choose to play as a group of blind people who refuse to cut down trees, yes you are choosing to play a group of people who are going to face extreme difficulties. That's the weird brutal story you've chosen - not that different from naked brutality or landing on a frozen tundra.

I want to remain true to what this game is because it would be easy to ruin what makes it special in my opinion.

If you think a setting makes something "to easy" then don't use it or change it to suit yourself

[ReverendBonobo]

It's just a more thematic version of the difficulty settings. Playing on Phoebe, Peaceful, with reload anytime also makes things a little too easy, which is why I don't do it. Hell, you can turn research speed to 500% in the custom settings, which makes that 150% look like nothing.

It's as easy or as hard as you want it to be. If you create an ideology that makes things too easy, crank the difficulty to "Losing is Fun" and start on an ice sheet. That should balance it for you.

[mcb0ny]

Setup your game to be as easy as possible, then proceed to complain it's too easy.


Also, for Zomboid reference... You do know that Zomboid has custom settings too, and you can make a start with all positive traits, tons of loot, almost no zombies and a day cycle that lasts real time 24 hours, right?