How do you people build on flat open ground?

[ROE]

Seriously. I see all these bases with no ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ defenses on wide open land and I always think, how in the hell?

How do you defend a huge wall? Even with two kill boxes built the raiders just go hit some other portion of the wall or they tunnel through the tiny ass hill outside my base. No matter what i do i cannot funnel the raiders into either kill box. Never had this problem before. Did sapper behavior change or something?

Looks like it's mountain bases for me from now on. ♥♥♥♥ this ♥♥♥♥.

[TwoTonGamer]

https://youtu.be/gXFVTjaBzOk?list=PLYlBkCxUn55j1oukWQFfBFy8F31tW-JqC
Old, old video from Bjorn's fantastic RimWorld Science series. It is still relevant. It may be helpful, or you may already know all of it.

The video can help a player bait the sapper raids to the desired area. That's the secret to the open ground bases, getting the raids to attack the right spot.

[ROE]

Thanks for the video. There was one thing in there that gave me an idea.

I have my walls ringed with turrets to dissuade both sappers and drop pods but it just isn't working on sappers. I mean at all. My bedrooms are also placed so that the AI should path through the kill boxes.

I have built open land colonies before. I don't know wtf is happening right now. There was word that Tynan was working on raid AI and i wonder if that change has been partially implemented.

[Wiawyr]

For open-area bases, i.e. not mountain bases, I set up fortifications outside the base at more-or-less cardinal directions and the spots inbetween. I don't use killboxes, as I find that to be extremely cheap and lazy; I just make sure my colonists have barricades to protect them from a threat in any direction while other colonists can flank said threat from adjacent fortifications.

[Astasia]

I don't believe there have been any AI strategy changes since 1.0.

If you are using SOS2 and a mod that touches pathfinding like Path Avoid together, pathfinding becomes broken and sappers will literally dig a straight line to your base with zero effort to go around anything and zero thought about where they are digging into. It's a known issue for SOS2 and the devs said they were working on a fix a couple months ago, but it seems like their last update was reverted.

[ROE]

Originally posted by Wiawyr:

For open-area bases, i.e. not mountain bases, I set up fortifications outside the base at more-or-less cardinal directions and the spots inbetween. I don't use killboxes, as I find that to be extremely cheap and lazy; I just make sure my colonists have barricades to protect them from a threat in any direction while other colonists can flank said threat from adjacent fortifications.

What level difficulty are you playing on?

The four corners defense is something i thought about, but the no killbox thing is just not something i can get behind. Also, it isn't lazy, it is efficient. A pillbox, or baracades as you call them, are nothing more than death traps for whoever is inside.

How are you going to stop a 5:1, or even a 3:1, wave raid when the raiders have multiple doom rockets, triple rockets, nades, and other wmds all backed by heavily armored snipers and machine gunners? That's to say nothing of mechs.

I think i have figured out a way to stop the sapper bs at least for now. That video above gave me an idea for a hybrid trap setup that seems to work.

Originally posted by Astasia:

I don't believe there have been any AI strategy changes since 1.0.

If you are using SOS2 and a mod that touches pathfinding like Path Avoid together, pathfinding becomes broken and sappers will literally dig a straight line to your base with zero effort to go around anything and zero thought about where they are digging into. It's a known issue for SOS2 and the devs said they were working on a fix a couple months ago, but it seems like their last update was reverted.

Yeah, no mods like that. I just wan't sure if they had decided to test any changes yet. They are coming though and they will suck. It's hard enough fighting off the bullet sponges without them being smart too.

[MortVent]

Layers and multiple defense points.

I often build turret nests at various locations (usually around a geo vent) with self contained power generation in case the grid is broken. Usually 1 big autocannon and several point defense auto-turrets with barricades and ieds/spike traps.

As well as multiple auto-turrets through out the base layout to have overlapping fields of fire, and use traps and other tools to assist.

Making multiple kill zones rather than one big kill box... so there is always a fall back point with fresh defenses (versus a kill box that fails and then you get wiped out)

[ROE]

Layered defenses are a must. I have those. They saved me when the raiders breached my walls.

Yeah, I'm done with this colony. It has been a cluster since the word go. I hate almost all my pawns and for some reason I just never gained traction on this run. Now i am behind the curve and starting to see raids with all armored super men that can deflect charge rounds. Stupid.

I did solve the sapper problem though. I watched where they liked to breach and built six block long vertical "hallways" and put three traps in each. That was enough to kill even armored sappers. Might have to go longer for multiple sappers. I think i will call it the hedgehog.

Now i will try again.

Good stuff all. Thanks .

[Morkonan]

Originally posted by ROE:

Seriously. I see all these bases with no ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ defenses on wide open land and I always think, how in the hell?

How do you defend a huge wall? Even with two kill boxes built the raiders just go hit some other portion of the wall or they tunnel through the tiny ass hill outside my base. No matter what i do i cannot funnel the raiders into either kill box. Never had this problem before. Did sapper behavior change or something?

Looks like it's mountain bases for me from now on. ♥♥♥♥ this ♥♥♥♥.

Just some added notes and testimony: (Not playing Royalty DLC)

First - If you kill the Sapper units, that's it as far as any Sapping activity goes. No other units in the Raid can do what the Sapper unit can do and it will immediately change the Raid's behavior.

Any Raid above the level of Tribal will automagically seek to avoid Turret range. They will not easily choose to path through an area covered by Turrets unless they have no other possible route to their target.

For the most powerful defense, it's my experience that a multi-layered wall approach is best. The hope there is to eventually kill any Sapper unit, rendering the Raid completely reliant on normal pathing routines. I rarely construct such a defense because it is entirely "OP", especially with mods. But... (I usually leave some areas only covered by bunker defense, to make my gameplay in defending against Raids much more "active" than passive. It's more funnerer...)

Construct two walls out of good stone, double-stacked, one an interior wall and the other a "Curtain Wall." Both surround your entire base. (You can put in doors so friendlies can get through, just make sure they have to path through a turret range in case you have a situation where they or a pawn/animal gets spotted using them during a Raid.)

In between those walls, you place turrets, hopefully with interlocking fields of fire.

Traps scattered around, especially near turrets so melee-raiders get enmeshed in them, is a good idea. Having to rebuild tripped traps is better than being dead... (Wooden traps are fine for this as they'll still act to slow down units due to injury.)

You then create "Kill Zones" with access from the outside as well as from the area in-between the walls.

The kill-zone has a route that is not covered completely by Turrets. Place mines in that space and/or traps.

The approach to the Kill Zone is through a trapped maze-like route.

Just in case they "spot" a pawn/animal moving through, every door into this area has sandbags to either side of it in order to prevent Raiders from using the walls next to the opening as "Cover." AI units can not stop movement on top of a sandbag, but must move to an adjoining square.

Change up the exact position of any tripped traps/mines when you rebuild them.

Actively Defend - While fully passive defense is possible, especially with trapped "maze" defenses, to ensure you can catch any stragglers that could push the auto-retreat limit you should build a bunker with walls and sandbags providing cover for pawns defending the entrance and, especially, a protected route to a secondary position should you run into truly severe circumstances and need to retreat. (If you don't have a pre-planned route of retreat, you've picked a spot to die.)

A few interior defensive positions is a must for Raids with Sapper units that do make it through as well as for Drop-Pod raids. A "Safe Room" as a last-ditch retreat possibility for either units that can't make it to a bunker emplacement or for non-combat units not participating in the defense is also a good idea. Put extra survival meals, medicine, beds, even last-ditch-use weapons in there and traps to either side of the entrance to it. You'll only rarely get to make full use of such a spot, but it's usually a significant advantage when you do. :)

Do not discount the concept of "mobile Turret emplacements" either. You can keep a couple of uninstalled turrets and batteries for hasty construction if necessary.

Mortars = Always good, but only if you have more than one and have a wide selection of ammo.

With the above, it's pretty difficult for any Raid to defeat you. Even Drop-Pod raids can be overcome. Though, when raids do gain access, they tend to split up, making easy defense problematic at times.

Note: The player is supposed to be challenged on challenging difficulties. A truly strong Raid is exactly what it is supposed to be. There are plenty of failure-points introduced in Rimworld for a reason. :) The very "end-game" raids are very tough.

PS: Many of the truly overpowered single-use weapons in the game can end a Raid or at least make it a non-issue. Acquire these for emergencies. Proper use of animals is an option, too. But, this is about basic "construction."

[MortVent]

Yes the animal insanity one shot is useful, call all pawns into a secured bunker spot... build a wall in front of the door. Trigger the manhunter pulse, let the critters all go nutz on the raiders... mop up afterward.

[ROE]

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2212474891

This is a colony i built awhile back. The pic shows the usual type of killbox i use. It's simple and lacks any advanced turrets because then things get boring. There is another smaller version to the north.

Sappers never went for any of the walls to the left, but they liked to go right. You can't see it, but there is a network of traps set up to kill them. I used IEDs to funnel them into the traps. It worked very well.

I keep lances laying around to deal with the doom rockets and use hide rooms in my killbox for melee people to hide in until the enemy passes. Then they jump out and hammer the enemy's head flat.

My current colony is just borked. I have had it happen before. Poor decisions at the start mostly. This time the i wanted to try and cherry pick my colonists so i went slow. The stupid game kept giving me colonists even though i didn't want them. Bad colonists. Next time that is getting turned off.

[Jpc1023]

I select the wall building and place a line of walls into a square and use it as a building

[ichifish]

I build killboxes by mid game if I’m not on some extreme map where my wealth is super lower, but mostly for the efficiency and because it’s easier too mop up afterwards, not because you have to.

I’ve played one open base (a + of roads configuration with no killboxes and storage around the center of the plus) to the late game on blood and dust or whatever the level is below merciless (but stopped before building the ship). I had regular turrets in the center as well until too many of my dudes kept getting caught in the crossfire. I also had some traps around. I use simple sidearms, too, and that’s a huge advantage.

It’s totally possible to deal with raids but it’s a different play style: more micro and tactical use of AI pathing. I saw a YouTube video that inspired me to do it, but forget whose it was. That and a purely nomad run were really helpful to break me of killbox reliance and help me understand the combat system. Some points:

One well-armored melee pawn or a stack of animals (which I eventually stopped when it got too cheaty) blocking a doorway with 2-3 rows of 6-9 shooters and/or grenadiers behind is VERY effective.

Your docs advance quickly!

It’s a lot more interesting than killboxes.

You need walls for animals.

Doorways are effective cover.

Clean up is a pain.

That said my latest two have had standard killboxes, and man is it easier. I’m getting much bigger raids (merciless) but it’s much more predicable.

Going to do a tomb-raider run next (just opening ancient dangers and moving to the next map), so back to playing out in the open.

[da_mercenary]

peaceful mode?

[Wolfguarde]

@OP, question: Are you having pawns or closed doors block the way into the base? If the AI can't find a path to whatever it is they want to ransack, I've noticed they'll default to wailing on the walls instead. I've taken to making long-ass maze corridors that all end in a large central chamber to circumvent this, so they either go for another corridor when they encounter my melee or start breaking walls that don't compromise the defence if they go down.

[ROE]

Originally posted by Wolfguarde:

@OP, question: Are you having pawns or closed doors block the way into the base? If the AI can't find a path to whatever it is they want to ransack, I've noticed they'll default to wailing on the walls instead. I've taken to making long-ass maze corridors that all end in a large central chamber to circumvent this, so they either go for another corridor when they encounter my melee or start breaking walls that don't compromise the defence if they go down.

No, my killboxes are open at one end with stone "pylons" for my colonists to use for cover. Sappers are just aaf. It had been so long since i built on a purely open map that i had forgotten how to deal with them effectively. My hedgehog defense worked great. I just hate this colony so i started over in the desert with settings that disabled forced pawns. At least i learned something i had forgotten.

I've also used open spaces to draw raiders in to a switchback kind of design where the turrets caches them in a crossfire form behind. Not sure that made sense. Will try to find a pic.