Let there be light

[Païtiti]

Darkness is scary. Mankind was always afraid of the dark because in the dark the unknown dwells. Our imagination creates horros out of the unseen and cloudes the rationality of our thoughts. Fire is literally the light in the dark, the saviour of humanity.

Yet in Rimworld we are in the dark most of the times. Yes, it is possible to build a torch and more advanced colonies even have electrical lighting but we cannot ever carry this light around. Taking a torchlight into the hand of a pawn and carry it around when its dark is something simply not possible. Why?

Darkness has massive implications on Rimworld. In case you didnt know your workspeed (and I believe also quality) depends on your pawns ' ability to see (what a shocker). Also a mood debuff is applied in darkness as well as movement penality.

In Vanilla you can only light up areas by installing lanterns which is not very handy in many situations.

I therefore propose the introduction of items such as torches, flashlights, flares and especially a miners helmet.

Did you know that mining in darkness is much slower than in light? Why cant your pawns carry around a flashlight or wear a miners helmet? Is it really feasible to build a torch or power conduit every time you want to mine somewhere?

Think about it for a second. It just doesnt make sense, it would be easy to implement (mods already exist) and it would increase comfort for the player massively as it takes away unnecessary complicated steps to achieve something essential.

[whatamidoing]

I dunno, I don't find installing lights "not very handy in many situations" and I'd probably never use any light items because they'd interfere with more important armor or clothing for not dying in extreme temperature, both of which are more important and more difficult to deal with than lighting.

[Vintorez]

Doubt it's gonna happen, the lighting engine isn't built for dynamic, mobile light sources. Trying to give pawns mining helmets or held flashlights would absolutely tank the frame rate, and I don't think they're going to overhaul the entire system for it. You could maybe have items that only removes the negative status effects of darkness, but it would be rather unsatisfying to have no visual representation.

[Minty Fresh]

Very poetic post!

Darkness isn't implemented that well in the game. It's causes dissatisfaction for the pawns and they work and move slower but, as the game is so well lit even in the middle of the night during an eclipse, it's very easy to ignore or forget about this mechanic.

I'd love to see a change or mod that introduces true darkness and portable light sources as well as the inability for pawns to do anything really practical when it is dark (seriously, operating on someone with out any light source should just not be possible). Further more, I'd love to see a "fog-of-war" type of application where the only things that you can see on the map are things that your pawns can currently see.

But, as the saying goes, if wishes were kisses we'd all be prostitutes.

[grapplehoeker]

"because it was dark" is the mental break I dislike the most and so, long ago, I started lighting my exterior pathways in addition to all interiors. This break rarely happens now and the base does look better for it. Sure, it costs power, but it's worth the cost ;)
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2574545652
Also, I do not understand why this is even a thing in the game.
Nyctophobia (fear of the dark) is more common for children and is even considered a normal part of development. But, it is rare in adults and for it to cause a debilitating mental break such as catatonia is extremely rare. Since all pawns in the game are adults, unless a particular pawn shows nyctophobia as a trait, I cannot see the reasoning for why this should occur at all.

[Tam]

There is a mod with a mining helmet. Perfect for mining slaves.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=755227567

Doubt it's gonna happen, the lighting engine isn't built for dynamic

:cringe:

[Hades]

I don't think it's "fear" of dark... it's the effect of constant darkness on the pawn's mood that, when stacked with other issues.... brings mood below 50% and triggers a chance of a mental break. But darkness being the last straw is pretty unfortunate.

I do as grapplehoeker above does.... space lighting along my main external paths so the debuff appears seldom. And I also plant flowers along paths for the same reason to keep mood up via beauty.

[Païtiti]

Originally posted by Hades:

I do as grapplehoeker above does.... space lighting along my main external paths so the debuff appears seldom. And I also plant flowers along paths for the same reason to keep mood up via beauty.

Yes ofc. But then there are situations like you need to get something at night from across the map. Would it not be the absolute logical thing to take a flashlight? Imagine a dark stormy night and a droppod lands across the map. You are suppose to run 2h to get the person and 2h back in pitch black. Would you not ask for a flashlight?

As other tools it might take away a weapons slot. So what? Its a tool for a certain situation such as a hatchet or hammer.

Another usecase is mining somewhere in a mountain that's not close to your base. How is it done atm? At the moment you build a torch and when your miners have advanced further into the mine you build another torch, and another... OR you are clever and get a battery and lights. But still, you need to put the battery there first.

I mean, I dont know if this is intended. Maybe it is. But it somehow feels unintuitive.

[Professor H. Farnsworth]

Originally posted by Tamm:

There is a mod with a mining helmet. Perfect for mining slaves.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=755227567

Doubt it's gonna happen, the lighting engine isn't built for dynamic

:cringe:

This ^

It is sort of silly that mining is depending on lightning and if you don't have the miner helm, you're basically screwed.

[Hades]

Think of it like area lighting versus torch lighting, and imagine every colonist has a personal torch.

What you're dealing with is an overall dark area... which is depressing or spooky.

[grapplehoeker]

Originally posted by Hades:

I don't think it's "fear" of dark... it's the effect of constant darkness on the pawn's mood that, when stacked with other issues.... brings mood below 50% and triggers a chance of a mental break. But darkness being the last straw is pretty unfortunate.

Why would darkness, constant or temporary have any effect on the mood of a stable adult though?
I can understand claustrophobia, agoraphobia or nyctophobia, but these are conditions/traits that are not common in adults. I do not understand how darkness could be any kind of last straw for someone without these conditions.

Originally posted by Hades:

What you're dealing with is an overall dark area... which is depressing or spooky.

Is it though? Unless you are pre-disposed to feel that way, possibly. It isn't usually a problem for most people.
If it was a case where it was always dark, that would be different. Humans require sunlight to produce seratonin, a hormone that promotes a feeling of well being. So, very long periods without sunlight can contribute to low mood, but that would be much longer than a few days and nights or even weeks before the levels of seratonin would be low enough to be an issue.

[Païtiti]

Originally posted by grapplehoeker:

Originally posted by Hades:

I don't think it's "fear" of dark... it's the effect of constant darkness on the pawn's mood that, when stacked with other issues.... brings mood below 50% and triggers a chance of a mental break. But darkness being the last straw is pretty unfortunate.

Why would darkness, constant or temporary have any effect on the mood of a stable adult though?
I can understand claustrophobia, agoraphobia or nyctophobia, but these are conditions/traits that are not common in adults. I do not understand how darkness could be any kind of last straw for someone without these conditions.

People get depressive when in the dark for too long. That's why a lot of countries that have long periods of night during the winter such as Finland or Sweden problems with alcoholism and suicide. It's about the carcadian rythm which is distorded when people are in the dark for too long (also ofc when in light for too long). Same is true for nightshift workers. It is an established fact and there are hundreds of publications out there about the negative effects of prolonged darkness, distorted day/night cycles etc

[grapplehoeker]

Originally posted by 123:

People get depressive when in the dark for too long. That's why a lot of countries that have long periods of night during the winter such as Finland or Sweden problems with alcoholism and suicide. It's about the carcadian rythm which is distorded when people are in the dark for too long (also ofc when in light for too long). Same is true for nightshift workers. It is an established fact and there are hundreds of publications out there about the negative effects of prolonged darkness, distorted day/night cycles etc

It's circadian rhythm and yes, I am aware of it. The natural internal clock that the sleep cycle is dependent on is regulated by the hormone melatonin and seratonin plays a part too, both of which require a regular source of sunlight. However, deficiencies in these hormone levels take a long time and we're talking about many weeks and months before it has a prolonged detrimental effect. Not hours or days/nights.
I've worked nightshifts for many years and you can mitigate the deficiency simply by ensuring you do get enough sunshine in your off hours. The biggest problem for those new to night shifts though is mistakenly believing they can conduct regular daytime activities too and don't get adequate sleep. That's when they fall asleep on the job and that can be dangerous for them and those around them!
In gaming terms, only if it was a long event such as a volcanic winter or a prolonged smoke spewer event, could it possibly induce depression due to a lack of sunlight.
A walk in the dark or an eclipse on the other hand should not be a problem.

Don't get me wrong. I like your suggestions, even if they are available via mods.
I was just expressing my disbelief and discontent for a game mechanic that can produce "because it was dark" ;)

[Astasia]

Solar Pinhole.

Originally posted by grapplehoeker:

Why would darkness, constant or temporary have any effect on the mood of a stable adult though?

Because nobody in their right mind has a good time trying to walk around and work in pitch black. You can't see what you are doing obviously, you have to feel around, stumble over things, stub your toe on that GD doorframe for the 50th time, it's not fun. Colonists probably have small lights on them which allows them to even do anything in 0% light but, juggling a flashlight or headlamp is nowhere near as effective as dropping a spot light down to help work. It's like claiming colonists use their bare hands to mine steel, no they obviously have a tool that is being abstracted, and if there is 0% light they obviously have some sort of light on them allowing them to work at 80% efficiency.

[Morkonan]

Originally posted by grapplehoeker:

...
I was just expressing my disbelief and discontent for a game mechanic that can produce "because it was dark" ;)

Hmm...

Have you heard about "tables?"

:)

On lighting: This came up once before in some long buried thread. Honestly, I can't remember a darn thing about the technicalities... :)

But, I can say that it's likely a mobile Rimworld "light" probably wouldn't look too good. To get it to look right, rather than some mobile "grey" cone, the map would have to be darker and, if that was the case, the player's view of the scenery wouldn't be as nice at night. The color scheme for some terrain/plant/etc textures might need a bit higher contrast, too, just so they didn't get washed out in such situations. For the benefit of just having some kind of dynamic lighting, the visual trade-off wouldn't be worth it.

A game keeps popping up in my head... It was an old RTS game with the player controlling a newly created base on a planet with some nasty critter enemy things. Anyway, the lighting at night was a perfect support for that theme. Sort of like an "Aliens" nightscape, except with a bunch more alien critters out there at night. (Not "Starcraft.") For Rimworld, while it would support the theme, the atmosphere is more neutral and less oppressive. Art direction/style is a meaningful game element in game design. Breaking it has serious risks.

The Dark - For the record, carrying a "torch" sucks and I can't understand how anyone ever went any distance in the dark carrying a torch back in the old-timey days... The only way they're useful is when they're as far from one's field of view as possible. That means either it's over one's head, with the risk of catching one's hair on fire, or held far out to the side, meaning you're probably going to light something else on fire 'cause you can't see the torch. "Night Blind" comes to mind.

I live in the mountains, now. This is where the real "Dark" is. It might get darker under the canopy deep in a forest somewhere at night, but not by very much. A big mountain or three can block a heck of a lot of moonlight/starlight. Where I am, the neighborhood's developer did not put in any streetlights. Not a one. (A good choice, annoying at times though.)

If I tried to go outside to the end of my driveway at night without turning on an outside light, I'd probably trip on something and fall flat on my face...

(Funnily enough, a lady was out jogging last night and ran right past my driveway as I was heading out on an errand. She was holding her cellphone down below her knees just to see where to put her feet... Must be a new neighbor or something.

Or just not too bright?

<ZING POW> :))

[Vintorez]

Originally posted by Tamm:

There is a mod with a mining helmet. Perfect for mining slaves.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=755227567

Doubt it's gonna happen, the lighting engine isn't built for dynamic

:cringe:

*checks mod comments*
Yep, causes notable stuttering/lag on low and midrange systems, or with large colonies.