Should you give sniper rifles to highly-skilled, trigger-happy shooters?

[ambi]

Thoughts? Has anyone done the maths? What's the ideal weapon to give to trigger-happy shooters?

I thought that mini-guns would be best, but there's no point in giving them this weapon if they miss EVERYTHING.

[corisai]

Any weapon work better in hands of trigger-happy shooter - difference is only in required Shooting level to make it worth it.

There was some math around in times of Beta + some of it stay on rimworld wiki AFAIK.

P.S. Miningun is still AMAZING if you're funneling enemies. Sure, it would rarely hit targets, but quite often - his friends.

[RoboGerbil]

i find shotguns work best in trigger happy. sniper rifles work best with careful shooter.

[TwoTonGamer]

In my experience,
Slow firing weapons like the sniper rifle are better with "Careful Shooter" trait to ensure that big, slow, powerful shot hits.
Fast firing weapons like the mini-gun and LMG's are better with "Trigger Happy" trait to put as many bullets out there as possible for a chance at a hit.

The mini-gun has an interesting mechanic unique to the weapon.
It will not ever hit the object it is targeting IF the target stays still and does not move. Everything around the target will get hit to heck but the target will remain unscathed as long as they do not move. As soon as the target starts to move then they, too, can get hit.

Edit: Thanks, Corisai, this minigun mechanic was indeed removed before 1.0 and is no longer a thing!

[corisai]

引用自 TwoTonGamer：

The mini-gun has an interesting mechanic unique to the weapon.
It will not ever hit the object it is targeting IF the target stays still and does not move.

Seriously? AFAIK forced miss was removed from miningun on release and it's just very unaccurate weapon now.

[Morkonan]

引用自 corisai：

引用自 TwoTonGamer：

The mini-gun has an interesting mechanic unique to the weapon.
It will not ever hit the object it is targeting IF the target stays still and does not move.

Seriously? AFAIK forced miss was removed from miningun on release and it's just very unaccurate weapon now.

Yeah, AFAIK that mechanic was removed. The way to make the mini-gun an "Ultimate Weapon" used to be "target the ground" instead of an enemy pawn. The "forced miss" would shred that enemy and anything else in range. :)

A Sniper Rifle, as TwoTonGamer pointed out, is a waste in the hands of any shooter with low Shooting or problems with accuracy. That's a big wind-up and a hit from that weapon that can deal out deadly head-shots.

Though, if one wants captures, leave the sniper-rifle out of the combat. Too many hits that don't kill usually end up with brain-damaged captives or prisoners with missing limbs...

[believor in Prawn]

trigger happys are better with everything compared to careful shooters if they are over level 15

[Morkonan]

引用自 believer in prawn：

trigger happys are better with everything compared to careful shooters if they are over level 15

IMO, and as far as I know provided the game mechanics are still the same as I remember them, then the answer to that should be "no." Give them anything but a Sniper Rifle and they might be decent with it due to volume, not accuracy. The Sniper Rifle is not about "volume" fire - It's too slow. Every shot needs to count.

[believor in Prawn]

引用自 Morkonan：

引用自 believer in prawn：

trigger happys are better with everything compared to careful shooters if they are over level 15

IMO, and as far as I know provided the game mechanics are still the same as I remember them, then the answer to that should be "no." Give them anything but a Sniper Rifle and they might be decent with it due to volume, not accuracy. The Sniper Rifle is not about "volume" fire - It's too slow. Every shot needs to count.

what?

they have better accuracy if they are over level 15 than someone with careful shot

[corisai]

引用自 Morkonan：

IMO, and as far as I know provided the game mechanics are still the same as I remember them, then the answer to that should be "no." Give them anything but a Sniper Rifle and they might be decent with it due to volume, not accuracy. The Sniper Rifle is not about "volume" fire - It's too slow. Every shot needs to count.

You're wrong here. Simple math : ~1,5-2.0 times more shots is better then +1% accuracy. Don't forget that accuracy is non-linear in Rimworld.

Wiki states that since Shooting 14 trigger-happy is better for a sniper rifle (almost 100% sure that this calculations are from Beta but still).

引用自 believer in prawn：

they have better accuracy if they are over level 15 than someone with careful shot

Not all weapons, some had breakpoint around ~20 lvl skill :) Again Beta data, if anyone saw 1.0 calculations - please share them. But highly doubt there is any major difference.

[Jigain]

引用自 corisai：

引用自 Morkonan：

IMO, and as far as I know provided the game mechanics are still the same as I remember them, then the answer to that should be "no." Give them anything but a Sniper Rifle and they might be decent with it due to volume, not accuracy. The Sniper Rifle is not about "volume" fire - It's too slow. Every shot needs to count.

You're wrong here. Simple math : ~1,5-2.0 times more shots is better then +1% accuracy. Don't forget that accuracy is non-linear in Rimworld.

You should also not forget that time between shots is based both on aiming time and cooldown. Trigger Happy reduces the aiming time by 50% (from 3.5 seconds to 1.75 seconds) but the cooldown time of 2.3 seconds remains unaltered. Thus you're getting about 1.43 times more shots at best.

[corisai]

引用自 Jigain：

Thus you're getting about 1.43 times more shots at best.

You'd catched me - I was too lazy to calculate it myself :) Thank you for details.

Still it's better then neglible amount of accuracy on very high levels of Shooting skill.

[Jigain]

I'm not sure if the accuracy loss is really that negligible on a sniper rifle. But then I haven't really been calculating much on the side of accuracy and DPS to begin with.

This site may not be up-to-date but it does seem to corroborate that Trigger Happy, whether on low or high skill pawns, leads to an average DPS loss compared to both Careful Shooter and no traits. But again, it could be outdated or mistaken, I don't know. If anyone can present calculations showing otherwise, I'll take those into consideration.
https://cityofthesky.com/RimworldAccuracyCalculator.html

[RoboGerbil]

you can test these really easily. start with the maximum range on a selected pawn and shoot a rhinocerous with it. if the rhino eats you, its no good. if you eat the rhino, its good.

[corisai]

引用自 Jigain：

This site may not be up-to-date

It's seems completely wrong.

Fast check : my pawn with 100% health, no mods, no drugs, Shooting 15 + careful shooter : in-game post-processing accuracy 99.0%, site think it should be 99.2%.
Chance to hit at distance 10/20 (total accuracy!), game say 90.4% / 81.8%. While site 92.2% / 85%.

Other pawn with 100% health & no mods & Shooting 12 + trigger-happy : in-game 95.5% post-processing, site think I should have 85.7%.
Chance to hit at distance 10/20 (total accuracy!), game say 63.1% / 31.6%. While site 21.2% / 3.9%.

Even pawn with NO traits, pure Shooting 13 : in-game 97.8% post-processing, site think 97.5%.
Chance to hit at distance 10/20 : game say 79.6% / 63.4%. Site say 77.6% / 60.3%.

Site state that Careful Shooter & Trigger-Happy is multiplier - but no, game now using it as static flat bonus.

In conclusion - no, this site is horribly wrong.

P.S. I could make a screenshots but highly doubt anyone need them as it's easy to check within your own game.
P.P.S. As in game CS & TH are flat modifier - then with really high basic Shooting and bionic eyes TH will became superior to CS with every possible weapon.

[believor in Prawn]

cs and th arent flat modifiers

cs gives +25% acc while giving plus 25% aiming time while th gives -25% acc while giving -50% aiming time