how to advance tech level

[minetime43]

so im at neolithic but i dont want the above tech level debuff on my researtch on midevil

[Jojojay]

in the vanilla game, you cannot advance tech level. for tribal starts, you could just turn the research cost down to 1/2 and you would have much the same effect.

you could also download the "tech advancing" mod from the steam workshop. this mod lets you advance tech levels when you research all of the tech from the previous levels, but i would reccomend just turning research cost down to 50 percent, the game is better balanced that way.

if somone else has a different opinion on this, feel free to share it

[Zorlond]

Considering you could get a bunch of new hires that ostensibly come from high-tech worlds, and that tech level in vanilla is linked to your starting faction, I wouldn't call it 'balanced' that you can never advance in tech level without a mod.

You could have a dozen Glitterworld Einstiens land and happily join your one-tribal colony and it won't change your tech costs one iota. That does not feel right.

[Astasia]

The fact you start without tech and have double the cost to get anything is the entire point of the tribal start. It's not really meant to make sense, it's meant to be difficult. If you really want to play a tribal start without the tech penalty, for RP reasons or whatever, just double the base research speed in the scenario settings.

If you want to apply logic to the tech level, think of it this way: Research isn't about one person learning how to make something, it's about teaching the entire colony how to make it. So you might have a spacer join the colony that already knows all this stuff, but they are going to have a hard time teaching it to the other tribal colonists. This is why a tribal colony still needs to research beds even if they get an escape pod colonist to join on day one. The research task is represented by one person standing in front of a table, but what's really happening is so much more.

[corisai]

Yes, @Astasia is correct - you need not only build some beds or AC for tribals. You need to teach them use it.

See some video about real world tribals - and you will realize that this is not easy task.

[BlackSmokeDMax]

Originally posted by Astasia:

The fact you start without tech and have double the cost to get anything is the entire point of the tribal start. It's not really meant to make sense, it's meant to be difficult. If you really want to play a tribal start without the tech penalty, for RP reasons or whatever, just double the base research speed in the scenario settings.

If you want to apply logic to the tech level, think of it this way: Research isn't about one person learning how to make something, it's about teaching the entire colony how to make it. So you might have a spacer join the colony that already knows all this stuff, but they are going to have a hard time teaching it to the other tribal colonists. This is why a tribal colony still needs to research beds even if they get an escape pod colonist to join on day one. The research task is represented by one person standing in front of a table, but what's really happening is so much more.

^^ This ^^

This is probably one of the areas where we need to ignore logic and stick with Astasia's first few sentences. It was just meant to increase the difficulty.

The fact that we can easily change this with either the scenario editor or via mods (like the Tech Advancing mod by GHXX) is a great reason to leave vanilla how it is.

[Zorlond]

Originally posted by corisai:

Yes, @Astasia is correct - you need not only build some beds or AC for tribals. You need to teach them use it.

See some video about real world tribals - and you will realize that this is not easy task.

Originally posted by Zorlond:

You could have a dozen Glitterworld Einstiens land and happily join your one-tribal colony and it won't change your tech costs one iota. That does not feel right.

How many new Glitterworld colonists would you say it'd take to declare a colony that only contains a single tribal to no longer be a tribal colony? A hundred? A thousand? Right now, that wouldn't make any difference.

Even more so, what if that single tribal died? And your colony only hase these new Glitterworld people in it? Who the hell is holding everybody back at that point?

[Emmote]

It would certainly make more sense if knowledge was tied to colonists, rather than the colony.

I mean, if two Glitterworlders landed in a single Tribal colony, they wouldn't instantly forget everything they know, even if what they know isn't everything they could have learned on the Glitterworld.
So I see two options. Either the Tribal would burn them all as witches and be done with it, or would go along with the new tech the Glitterworlders do know.

[Zalzany]

Originally posted by Emmote:

It would certainly make more sense if knowledge was tied to colonists, rather than the colony.

I mean, if two Glitterworlders landed in a single Tribal colony, they wouldn't instantly forget everything they know, even if what they know isn't everything they could have learned on the Glitterworld.
So I see two options. Either the Tribal would burn them all as witches and be done with it, or would go along with the new tech the Glitterworlders do know.

Your options suck in reality, they would just laugh at them, and the glitter world would pull out theri hair as they bang the AC unit with a stone club to turn it on and off. Or they put the wires down for the powere ungrounded and possible frayed killing people who touch it once its live, or causing a dozen times mroe ZZZT from ♥♥♥♥♥♥ instalation by the tribal 12 skill construction guy who doesn't know the first thing about laying wires.

You never worked much with others I take it, you can be smart and know how to use everything perfectly then have some idiot teling you they know what they are doing, half ass listening to your training cut off a finger tip on a meat slicer for instance, because "pfft its faster this way, what do they know?" Never underestimate stupid to provail no mater how many glitter world techs you got it only takes one bone head to ♥♥♥♥ it all up for every one else.

Just use the mode or scenerio editor, boom done, don't try to act like you know what your talking about, you sound like the guy who gets trained on meat slicer then cuts off a finger tip going "I got this, I mean they call it common sense for a reason, your just over complicating things." Trying to sound really smart, but you have no idea really what your talking about... And yes I spent an ass time in real life talking to idiots some with degrees better then mine who still were just as usefull as a kid with a GED if not worse, because they thought they had it all figured out, but in reality things don't work out the same way they do in a text book, or spreedsheet. Not when it comes to human skill, and other factors.

I mean I can give you x amount of employees with y amount of hours all the same level of education, hell same schools even and group A could out perform group B because in reality yoru only as strong as the weakest link. And saddly you got work towards that. And trust me with all the training I have done, some people do learn faster then others, but no matter what you got train all of them to do the same thing, which means even that guy that needs your to repeat it 5 times, show him hands on, and scold his ass so he does it right every time not just when your looking. One thing I learned is there is no one right way to train, I have had kids with basic education who I just got show one time, in detail and they are masters, and others I got show 8 times, write it down for them to study, and look over their shoulder while they do it and correct them over and over again that take 3+ shifts to learn what the other one learned in 10 minutes...

[Emmote]

Just because the Tribal might break stuff more often, doesn't mean the Glitterworlders have forgotten how to build high-tech things. That would be stupid. But in RimWorld, that's how it works.

Sure, there will be Glitterworlders who know as much about their tech as most people nowadays know about mobile phones, practically nothing, but you'll get people who do know things, and it would make sense that once they arrive, you learn that tech, or get heavy bonuses toward learning it.

[Zalzany]

Like great example Cappicino machine, simple as hell to learn for most in my opinion, take it apart, clean parts in sink once a day, put back same way you took it off, simple pour the drink mix in the top into the labeled hoppers, machine does the rest. To clean it you use a bleach bucket, then hand wash it at the sink, wipe it down, put back together. Seen most learn that in one go, had others I have to show 10 times how to put it back to gether when each thing has like 3 parts that come off, the spout for the powder mixer, a mixing chamber where it mixes it with hot water, and the bottom that funnels that into your cup below, for some reason they get confused because there is 5 sets of 3, and get confused about part 1 and part two or put the middle upside down...

Same thing with a scale in a Deli hit a button, to open a menu pick what it is, coleslaw or whatever put item on scale, it prints the barcode for the price, slap lide on it, your done. I have people go "is this colslaw or potato salad, I forgot..." Or I show them how to use the slicer for deli meats, show them where the kevlar glove is for when we clean it, and that it must always be worn when cleaning it. Then once every 3 new guys (stupid high turn over rate in deli) some one decids "meh I don't need a kevlar glove to clean a razor sharp blade" and they cut them selves really crazy deep, you don't even feel it its so sharp till its too late you see the blood before you feel the cut. And sure enough I can tell them 20 times "ALWAYS, ALWAYS, use this set of gloves when you clean this, its razor sharp." Then some idiot figures out if they turn it on low, and just gold a rag on the blade they can clean it super fast, and then decide it will go even faster if they just don't grab that glove that takes 10 seconds to get on the wall 2 feet away from the slicer.

Those idiots are why the turn over is high, and why you may see a new cashier at your super market with a bandaid or bandage ringing you up :P

Also glitter world don't mean your an expert at all. I am USA we got tons of nice things I don't know a damn thing about AC repair, sure I can fix, and assemble a PC for you, but I didn't go to trade school for ac repair, and glitter tech people to me seem more likely to not know a damn thing. Its like people in rich nations they don't know how to fix their own ♥♥♥♥, they got people for that lol. Like I am hanging out online with a guy from middleast, and another from iceland I am just now realizing how spoiled I am, sure I know more about guns then them, but they know so much more about things I take for granted lol. I mean I even live in the desert I couldn't survive with out AC, I have no idea hwo to fix one minus "did you turn it off for a while then back on to see if the freon cable froze solid, you did oh that is all I got."

[Emmote]

That's a nice story and all, and the last part is exactly what I said, did you even read my post?

Essentially I'm saying it would make sense for knowledge in the colony to be attached to each colonist individually, rather than as a whole, which you somehow in your own way seem to be suggesting as well, as you've made it very clear that some people learn quicker than others, which is obvious to anyone who has ever learned anything in the presence of other people.

I mean, take this example inside Rimworld as it currently stands. Start a tribal colony with 1 person, then later on get a spacer join the colony, and get the tribal killed.
Now we have a spacer colony, but still with tribal knowledge. Doesn't make sense.

[corisai]

Originally posted by Emmote:

Just because the Tribal might break stuff more often, doesn't mean the Glitterworlders have forgotten how to build high-tech things. That would be stupid. But in RimWorld, that's how it works.

Are they really know how to build them? ;)

Do you know how to build CPU, oil refinery, machines, aircraft, furniture, electric systems, etc, etc? All at once? ^_^

Actually no, we know only how to use them + may have own specialization in very narrow field of creating&building modern equipment.

Just ask yourself - how many peoples around you able to build some complex device? Not use, not fix & repair - but build from scratch? Then - how many among them able to do this without using modern CAD systems? :)

Plus even if that colonists extremly lucky find and actually know how to build, for example, glitterworld agro-systems - he's know how to build them with glitterworld tools. Not with some medieval ones.

Cmon - search a bit about medieval furniture. It's constructed quite different from modern furniture. And it's well - simply furniture. Not something complex.

Ability to advance average tech level in matter of several months/years is extremly cinematic and cartoonish. IMHO tribals should be completely forbidden to build spacer-level tech and forced to find&launch existing spacecraft only.

[Zorlond]

Originally posted by corisai:

Are they really know how to build them? ;)

Do you know how to build CPU, oil refinery, machines, aircraft, furniture, electric systems, etc, etc? All at once? ^_^

Actually no, we know only how to use them + may have own specialization in very narrow field of creating&building modern equipment.

By this logic, every single colony in Rimworld should be at tribal tech level, even the ones started by Glitterworlders.

[Emmote]

Originally posted by corisai:

Are they really know how to build them? ;)

Do you know how to build CPU, oil refinery, machines, aircraft, furniture, electric systems, etc, etc? All at once? ^_^

Sure, I have built a few things on that list and have a fairly good idea of how the others are made. With an oil refinery, I've got a very good idea of the processes involved inside, but wouldn't have a clue how to design one, I'd need a builder for that.

With CPU's, in RimWorld your colonists never make any, they rely on Components, either found or bought.

But as I have already said before, yes, I am aware that a lot of peoples knowledge isn't very broad. Most people don't bother to learn outside their field, which is a shame. So, I know that most people have no idea how TV's work, or their mobile phone, or even their plumbing.

But again, that makes sense. They would simply join the colony and have very little knowledge on anything in the research tree and would have to be taught by other colonists to get anything done. And as you pointed out earlier, they would have individual learning factors, so that they can learn faster or slower than average.

I'm not saying this should be made vanilla, because I know that it won't be. I just think it would make an interesting mod for a bit more realism.

[liosalpha]

Maybe a modded solution could be to bind reseach to the pawn and set the difficulty to his background. But rather then magicly share the new goodys in the tribe, the researchers have to explain it to pawns. Depending on the brains, skill, background and the spread of the sait reaseach in the tribe/colony.

It would make sens that the main cook would pick up an new recipe more easly then a builder.

but i gues this mod would also be a lagg generator XD