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Hey, here's my thought to you, OP.
No.
Then you can go ahead and no that, and I'll nono that, and then you can nonono that, and we'll just go on an endless loop of no because that seems to be the only thing you're after.
Your sounds & graphics argument also makes no sense. While reading a book you actually do imagine all of these things based on descriptions the author provided, except a book can't produce sounds by itself and images can be only drawn by the author and they are only from their imagination, your picture of events will be different. It really isn't hard to treat each colony in rimworld as a different book being written as you play.
You're lying though, I've always made very clear what i mean in my posts, i've always made arguments. Anyone can read the posts and i don't just say "no". You're absolutely free to say "no" but you're also not presenting an argument, and you're not presenting an opinion other than "no", that's fine but don't lie and tell me i don't have arguments or thoughts.
In a book you have to picture stuff since a book is not a graphical medium. It's very unlike a game which can provide us with unlinear story, graphics, sound.. if your argument worked no game would need story because you could "just imagine it".
The game does have dialogue, the game does have story elements. So it seems really far-fetched to say "it has to be imagined.", no it doesn't, it can be presented by the game (which is also the selling point - a *story generator*.)
I absolutely love the idea of a story generator. I just don't think its fully realized for much of its content. Never miss the opportunity for great story telling when you're telling a story. Merchants arriving at a scenery with piles of bodies and blood is a great example of what could become very cool story elements. In a book this scenario would be really well described, no way the author would leave it out and argue "you have to fill in the text, i'm not gonna describe it!" in a story generator it can't just be there, it didn't "generate" anything.
I would not argue if Tynan said "this game isn't really about story at all, it's something you have to fill in yourself, i'm aiming for gameplay elements first and foremost".
But he's not, he' saying the opposite of that, thus he needs to get the story generation right, with telling cool and randomly generated stories which organically is created via the game engine.
Interesting... let's have a look at your second reply.
Oh dear... well, at least you've started your third reply in a different manner, right?
I'm seeing a pattern here, are you?
PS. Nowhere did I say you don't have thoughts, I'm just saying you're asking people for thoughts and then immediately rejecting them when offered to you. I think what you want is not thoughts, but rather an echo chamber. :)
Focus on my arguments. What does it matter that i say "no" when i don't agree. I see what you are doing here, perhaps it's time for you to leave for another topic where you do have something interesting to present to the discussion?
btw, eco chambers are boring, but fanboys not having arguments and saying "well maybe you can try to imagine it" is just as boring.
The discussion could be meaningful if more scenarios than my few could be presented, maybe there aren't that many and i'm over exaggerating? These were two things i thought of and i was thinking "well this is very poorly generated for a story generator.."
Maybe it's a performance thing? The game is already tracking too many things? Any modder or programmer probably have some insight into this.
I love generative stuff btw, i have texture generators, and as a modular synthesizer user i have tons of generative modules that does stuff in a musical sense. If my generators sometimes came up with nothing i would be disappointed, i would never argue "well, maybe i just have to fill it in myself, 10/10!", it's not really why i use a generator, it supposed to do this for me.
A bear self tamed. What's the story there? How can you make that into a story? You trained this bear as a battle animal then at some point it became the trainer's pet.
There's a story there about a bear who approaches the colony in curiosity. You sent out the colony hunter to check it out(colonist with best handling skill) and sees it to be somewhat friendly. He trains it to fight for the colony. Eventually they develop a bond of friendship(bear becomes a pet).
And that's the story of the self-tamed battle bear of the colony.
A generator generates. A story generator should take opportunities when there's a story to be had. Big ones, little ones.
This is not so much about a deep story as it is about immersion.
A bear that gets self-tamed on the other side of the map and walks to your colony isn't as immersive as if the bear would live near the colony for a while and one day it decides "these people haven't killed me yet, they have food and they seem safe to live with". But yes, that is in fact a story element too. Not an especially deep one, but a story nonetheless.
Generated text as to why the bear decided to join would be cool too, e.g "the bear smelled 100 stacks of meat and decided to befriend the colony" or "bear likes person x because y", numerous interesting / fun things to be had with that, which would add to the story.
It's the sum of all parts that matters for story as a whole. Like i said, this particular immersion breaking thing would be very easy to fix by just delaying the text so that the animal is near the camp and after a while it's tame. Yet Tynan does not care, very little thought seems to have been put into immersion or story, yet it's what he want to advertise the game as, as a story generator.
And again, not hating, just doing arguments as to why i don't think it's that great as a story generator and how it could become better, often with very little to almost no effort.
Perhaps there's a mod i'm missing that makes up for the poor efforts of story telling?
Might look into it myself at some point when i'm done with my Skyrim and FO modding..
Honestly, this is a bastardization of my response. But from what I've been seeing from your posts here, what you want is for the game to give you more reasons as to why things happen in the game. I'll go a bit more into that in a moment.
If the game was in fact bad at being a story generator, then I don't think so many people would have come up with such unique stories throughout their hundreds (and sometimes thousands) of hours of gameplay. Writing elements in something like a story generator can intentionally be left vague in order to allow more room for the person experiencing the story to allow their imagination to fill in information as things go on. (And yes I know, you don't like that. So before you go ahead and say "no" and reiterate how this is bad in your opinion, remember that this is simply stating a fact. I'm not saying that you have to like it.)
On the other hand, other stories are more fleshed out with specific reasoning as to why certain events take place, or how characters react to certain things. While this is more refined, it also restricts the amount in which the person experiencing the content can input their own reasoning and thoughts behind why things happened to go the way they did, because it is stated in the story as factual, and there is little to no wiggle room for imagination.
It could be looked at on a scale, where the prior is more on the chaotic end of the scale and the latter being on the lawful end of the scale. Chaotic doesn't have a refined set of rules to follow, and lawful sticks strictly to specific rules. Personally, I find rimworld somewhere in the middle of the spectrum, but leaning more to the chaotic side. It does provide information relevant to why things happen, but it remains more vague on events that you or your colonists wouldn't know about. For instance, your colonists aren't astronomers, so they don't know when lunar eclipses will happen. They just happen when they happen. They didn't know that a raid was on its way to the settlement, it just arrived. What they do about it is up to you, the one weaving the story.
Now, more onto the point of having more in-depth reasoning for specific events. I'll use the example of having a reason as for why an animal decided to join a colony. Specifically, the scenario of a bear joining from across the map.
If you wanted the game to specify the reason for this bear to join, let's say smelling that meat stored up in the colony stockpile, then this would mean that every item in the game would have to have variables that interact with the rest of the world. Let's say that meat was given the property of fragrance, and depending on the creature, it would either cause a positive reaction or a negative reaction, or simple indifference. This would mean that every entity in the game would need to have values attached to them in order to be able to react to this mechanic. So that means that suddenly, every entity in the game is running one more check per frame to see if that meat scent factor is applying to them or not. This will have an impact on the game's performance, as every check must be processed at the intervals that it's set to be checked. Now this may not be much when it comes to a single item, but when you have this sort of check on every single item for every single entity in the game, that's going to cause a major performance issue. Not to mention making the game very inaccessible for those who don't have rigs that are capable of handling so much processing. Suddenly, having that tiny bit of detail comes at a colossal cost. For instance, perhaps one pawn really likes slate but hates marble, so their personal buffs and debuffs would revolve around that preference. And that means that every pawn would have randomized variables for every item in the game, and having to store and recall those variables for every individual in the world is yet another hefty load on the processing as well as the memory, all for something that adds trivial amounts of depth to the world.
Now, did you know that bears have a wildly keener sense of smell than humans do? Bears are capable of smelling something like meat from kilometers (or miles) away. And I mean up to 32 kilometers (20 miles) away. You're not even going to see that bear on the map, and it's going to be able to pick up on the scent of that meat regardless. So if you wanted to use that as a factor in the bear's decision to try and be friendly with the humans that are housing that meat, it's not only possible, it's extremely likely that it was a contributing factor. And this can be added into the story through the player's own deductions for much less resources than having all of the above variables melting processors in order to add those few words onto the text telling you that a bear has self tamed and joined your colony 'because it smelled meat'.
With all of that said, know that I'm not simply defending rimworld. I personally feel that there are improvements that could be added as well, and it's great to voice ideas and get thoughts out there bouncing around. That's how we can influence change.
As far as the corpse thing is concerned. The debuff is annoying because it stacks which need to be reduced, but the effect is certainly a real thing. When the shtf adrenaline drives you to fight and survive by any mean necessary. When the dust settles and the adrenaline subsides, the conscience then has to deal with the aftermath of seeing the death you have wrought. Some people are more mentally tough than others, or are outright psychopaths. Others crack under the knowledge that they caused another to cease to exist on this mortal coil. It's just simple psychology.
You are a better story generator than Tynan, at least in this one area.
A psychic drone, to push his enemies in to mental break, but accidentally your colony is in the range of the drone?
What if that self tamed warg was hungry, seen you have food, and decided not kill you, but beg for food? Your imagination is so weak, you need deep explanation about every events in the game? Rw is not a text based story generator.
But if you think some events don't fit in your story (you can't imagine how that cxan happen), you can disable those events in scenario editor.
Traders on the rim. On the rim, where wars, slaughter, ambushes on the road, etc are every day events won't flee just becouse there is some blood on the floor, and a rotten corpse hanging from the tree.
But check their mood: they get mood penalty BC of the corpses, just like raiders do. Or don't you know, you can place a dump zone around your base, put all the corpses there, and let the next wave of raiders get a mental break? Or build a long, dark, cold (or hot) maze leading to your entrance, and put the bodies there (5% of the background story of your new colony is done. Now. Use your imagination, and write your own story.)
Don't need to reply, these are just my thoughts. IDC your "no".
Try to say more yes, accept others opinions, maybe next time you ask for help (or want others to share their thoughts), they won't say: No, because you can't say anything, but "no".
This is why I'm love RW: everybody can have its own imagination about his story.
(Imagine my androids rolling joint all day long, while their 2 half cyborg pet T rexes ripping raiders at the entrance. The survivors are dropped in a dark cell, where the psycho owner of the colony can rape them with his archotech cucumber. You see? This is my current story.)
1. Yes, it’s (theoretically) possible and the game would be much better if the events and accompanying text improved we’re improved to make them more “immersive,” which for the purposes of this post I’m going to redefine as “not immersion-breaking,” rather than “immersive,” as 1) that seems to be heart of the OP’s example and 2) it’s easier to agree (lol, fat chance, right) on how to fix something that breaks immersion rather than create something immersive. To me the “self-taming” isn’t really immersion breaking, but I agree with the OP that there are moments that do that. One that sticks out for me is eating on top of a corpse pile, then getting dual debuffs when the pawn could make it back to the dining room. I’m OK with debuffs for “the horrors of war” and “too busy;” I just find the specific triggers immersion breaking.
That said, I stipulated “theoretically” because even small changes cost time and money, and the developer has to weigh that against creating glorious new content (and then heavily modify it when we complain that the pampered nobility don’t make good heroes).
And yes,
2) a lot of the game is in our heads, and it helps to actively re-imagine the fiction such that the immersion doesn’t break. Why are there bionics and mechanics spaceships and no cars? Because I guess even the best roads aren’t passable by wheeled vehicles? OK, that’s good enough (barely, if you don’t think about it).
I see a lot of comments along the lines of “you’re playing the game wrong,” though. I wish people wouldn’t do that. You can get your points across without claiming other people are wrong.
It's not about what happens but what doesn't happen. It's also not complaints, its some much needed constructive criticism for this particular part of the game.
The game is playable as it is, of course it is, i have hundreds of hours of playing and its fun.
Do i think more opportunities for story generation could be done, yes i do.
The only thing i've seen so far here is mostly people not agreeing for the sake of not agreeing, and not because they have even a single good argument as to why it would be soooo terrible to flesh out the story and take more opportunities in terms of story generation. Why it would be bad to make the game more immersive when it comes to things that doesn't make too much sense.
But whatever, it's useless to discuss this with so called fanboys who's only interested in people praising every single part of the game. It's too bad really because if people (yes, even fans) dared to critique the so-so parts we eventually would end up with a much better game.
There's not really anything more i want to add to the "discussion" and i've said my piece.