Explain trade to me

[Captain Keen]

Not trade in a general way - I get it, guy shows up on my doorstep, I sell him all my trash up to the limit of his cash-on-hand.

No, I mean requesting caravans. It costs goodwill, right? So trading with people will, over time, make them my enemies?

... really? oO

[Aizuki]

not really , it wont down past neutral relationship if the faction originally not pirate or hostile on first landing

[TC]

If you dump some overstock to them you get gifts.

Allso rescue Pawns from them if they are down.

Destroy bandit camps helps also

[starbabylon]

And you can set up caravans to sell directly to towns, with no goodwill cost. (your caravans can get attacked though)

[Captain Keen]

Originally posted by Aizuki:

not really , it wont down past neutral relationship if the faction originally not pirate or hostile on first landing

Well - at least that's something. Still weird though. Trade really is what makes us friends. We don't much like each other otherwise. It takes the exchange of goods for money for us to get along =)

Originally posted by TC:

If you dump some overstock to them you get gifts.

Allso rescue Pawns from them if they are down.

Destroy bandit camps helps also

Yea, I know of the other ways to raise relations. It's just weird to me that making them rich makes them like me less.

Originally posted by starbabylon:

And you can set up caravans to sell directly to towns, with no goodwill cost. (your caravans can get attacked though)

Yes, but if I do, those people aren't in my village, doing stuff I need them to do =(

[Premu]

Originally posted by Captain Keen:

Yes, but if I do, those people aren't in my village, doing stuff I need them to do =(

So, that's the reason it costs goodwill to call them specifically - because they will have some pawns not being able to work in their settlement.

[stevasaur]

Originally posted by Premu:

Originally posted by Captain Keen:

Yes, but if I do, those people aren't in my village, doing stuff I need them to do =(

So, that's the reason it costs goodwill to call them specifically - because they will have some pawns not being able to work in their settlement.

Also probably to prevent exploiting the caravan's combat power to deal with Infestations/Ship Chunks. Caravans have a lot of firepower, so using them to fight a Ship Chunk (or some other negative event that sticks around on the map) would be a cheap way to avoid paying the Goodwill costs for summoning aid.

[gussmed]

I’ve found that sending out trade caravans of my own is a good use of my colonists’ time.

The caravan doesn’t have to be big. I send about 25% of my colonists with it, a negotiator and enough guards to fend off any attacks. I’ve had plenty of ambushes and the guards have put them down easily every time.

The main thing is pack animals, both to carry goods out and bring stuff back. Often enough I’ve traded for steel, though I’m mostly remote-mining for that now. A caravan without pack animals doesn’t carry enough stuff to be productive.

The next effect is that a few colonists are gone for a couple of days, and I get stuff that’s going to last me 30-40 days. Stuff that I can’t obtain just by staying home, and which will take considerable luck to trade for if I wait for caravans to come to me.

My main caveat is don’t travel during the winter. It’s slow and you have to carry food for you pack animals.

[bipolaron]

I agree that mid and late game you should be sending out caravans with lightweight high value goods. On the world map, you can see what each settlement will buy. They have much better items at their settlements for you to purchase back than they tend to have in caravans.

I'd say that their settlement selection and amount of gold is comparable to a ship or two. But probably not as easy to sell off those 1000 fine meals and 8000 ironwood.

[For_Science!]

Originally posted by Captain Keen:

Yea, I know of the other ways to raise relations. It's just weird to me that making them rich makes them like me less.

Originally posted by starbabylon:

And you can set up caravans to sell directly to towns, with no goodwill cost. (your caravans can get attacked though)

Yes, but if I do, those people aren't in my village, doing stuff I need them to do =(

As others have been pointing out, you are pulling THEM away from THEIR village as well. If you buy or sell large amounts of stuff to a caravan, it will raise their relations with you. If you give them a gift, it will raise it a lot more. So the real dynamic is not "If I trade with these people, they will become my enemies."

It's "If I ask them to trek out to my colony, and then fail to make their trip worthwhile with major trades or gifts, then after a while they will stop agreeing to come out whenever I say the word. Their caravans will still stop by sometimes, but at their convenience, not mine." Which is an entirely sensible policy on their part.

[Captain Keen]

Thanks all - these are all valuable replies. Even though I think you've all progressed somewhat beyond my 8 man colony size =)

But this:

Originally posted by For_Science!:

As others have been pointing out, you are pulling THEM away from THEIR village as well. If you buy or sell large amounts of stuff to a caravan, it will raise their relations with you. If you give them a gift, it will raise it a lot more. So the real dynamic is not "If I trade with these people, they will become my enemies."

It's "If I ask them to trek out to my colony, and then fail to make their trip worthwhile with major trades or gifts, then after a while they will stop agreeing to come out whenever I say the word. Their caravans will still stop by sometimes, but at their convenience, not mine." Which is an entirely sensible policy on their part.

This is the exact thing I was looking for. So .. trade enough, and it balances out the goodwill hit. Good to know.

Do you also know then, whether it's the total worth of the trade? Does buying count more than selling?

Will a high social skill affect how easily I offset the goodwill hit?

[Premu]

Originally posted by Captain Keen:

Do you also know then, whether it's the total worth of the trade? Does buying count more than selling?

Will a high social skill affect how easily I offset the goodwill hit?

One thing I observed that the overall trade volume is the most important factor. If I sold goods worth 2000 silver and bought goods worth 1800 silver in exchange, I get a larger increase than for just selling or buying.

[Captain Keen]

Hmm ... I always aim for making a profit, or trading even. Well, basically I always try to clean them out (sell to match their amount of silver plus any items of theirs I want).

But from what you say, that's not a bad thing.

[For_Science!]

It's not a bad thing at all. The whole reason they bring stuff is that they hope you will buy it, and the whole reason they brought silver is that they hope they can buy your stuff in return. Large transactions keep your trading partners happy, and make them want to come back next time you call!

(At first, when your economy is small, you might find that the goodwill gains from trading only partly offset the penalty for calling their caravan. But still, every little bit means you can call more caravans before you have to sweeten the deal with a gift, a rescued and released pawn, or a quest completion.)

[climbingeastofwinter]

Making a profit while trading doesn't always mean walking away with items. Or anything really, as others have noted in this thread. Buying goodwill through donated goods can be well worth it if it means you can trade at nearby settlements that belong to factions that would otherwise be hostile, and trade for their juicy juicy arcotech replacement limbs, 'prisoners with jobs', or plasteel / glitterworld medicine / component stockpiles.

[Blazikasu]

Originally posted by Captain Keen:

Originally posted by Aizuki:

Yes, but if I do, those people aren't in my village, doing stuff I need them to do =(

Sometimes getting trade done is more important than 1-2 pawns and a few caravan animals being absent for a few days. You can get most of the stuff you'll need from trade. Luciferium, ores, weapons, armor, neutroamine, techs, psycast abilities, bionics/arcotech, animals, even slaves.