Rotten

[Emelio Lizardo]

Now things like wood and other basic materials require not just roofing but to be enclosed indoors. I think this is silly, unnecessary, and unjustified. It exebrates the storage problems without due cause.

[M.K.]

Thought experiment.
Put a stack of your books in 4 cardboard boxes.

Put one out in the rain
Put one out under an awning, but exposed to the elements
Put one in a normal room
Put one in a temperature and humidity controlled room.

Which one will last longest before crumbling away?


(using books, because they show effects quicker.. same process though as with other organic materials)

[martindirt]

Originally posted by Emelio Lizardo:

Now things like wood and other basic materials require not just roofing but to be enclosed indoors. I think this is silly, unnecessary, and unjustified. It exebrates the storage problems without due cause.

Wood. Only wood. No other raw building materials needs roofing.
Do you know what happens when wood logs are just left outside? They begin to ... (Tadadadadaaa) rot.

But if this bugs you, there are mods to prevent this.

[stevasaur]

"requires" is a very strong word. I've had logs lying out on the map for literally a year and they show no real sign of deteriorating. I'm on a Tundra biome, so they've been snowed on repeatedly (which IIRC increases the rate of degradation slightly).

Even if that's too fast for you, putting logs under a roof will still slow the degradation significantly: "outdoors and unroofed "is significantly more damaging than simply "outdoors"

[Chaoslink]

It shouldn’t really matter anyways. You harvest the resources to use them. As long as you’re using them as you’re collecting them, you don’t need to worry about them rotting away. No need to cut 4000 wood and store it for four years. Cut it as you need it, keeping smaller stockpiles on hand and you don’t need to worry about it. Better to keep it in a stone building that is less prone to fires anyway.

[Vintorez]

Wood is the only raw rescource that degrades outside, like it does irl, but it takes a looong time for it to degrade completely, literally years. Don't fret about it being outdoors/unroofed, if you leave it out long enough to disappear then you never needed it in the first place.

[Dr@g0n]

yeah i dont think it matters what percentage is left, 1 percent does the same as 100 percent, but for some reason $$ value changes.

you can also change deteriation rate when starting a new game, not using mods. scenario editior-> edit mode-> add part-> deteriation rate, and than lower it below 100%, of course this does modify everything but its nice for when you don't want to care about hauling needs

[Songbird]

Originally posted by martindirt:

Originally posted by Emelio Lizardo:

Now things like wood and other basic materials require not just roofing but to be enclosed indoors. I think this is silly, unnecessary, and unjustified. It exebrates the storage problems without due cause.

Wood. Only wood. No other raw building materials needs roofing.
Do you know what happens when wood logs are just left outside? They begin to ... (Tadadadadaaa) rot.

But if this bugs you, there are mods to prevent this.

To be clear, wood is stored outside in the real world to prevent the rotting. If you keep it indoors logs tend to start first signs of decay after about 8 months. On the other hand, I have 5-6 year old firewood stored in my yard with nothing but a roof and that is in prestine condition.

[Emelio Lizardo]

I'm saying that for many materials a simple roof is sufficient to prevent deterioration. The requirement to be also enclosed and indoors is unjustified. Wood (logs) is the specific example but the rest need to be rethought according to their nature.

[Jigain]

Then give a better specific example. Because without one, I'd say all the stuff makes sense according to its composition.

Components deteriorate when exposed to outside air. This makes sense. The more delicate parts of it oxidize in humid air.
Stone blocks do not deteriorate when exposed to outside air. This makes sense. Stone doesn't suffer much from outdoors consitions.
Cloth and clothes deteriorate when exposed to outside air. This makes sense. The humidity hastens the decomposing process.
Weapons deteriorate because oxidization.
Wood rots.
Et cetera, et cetera.

All makes sense. Point out what thing does not make sense.

[Emelio Lizardo]

You're right not everything should be exposed, but those things that are more robust, like wood, should only need roofing.

[Jigain]

Wood is not robust. Unless treated, wood decomposes due to being a biological material when exposed to an outdoors environment. That's the reason why, say, woodyards keep their wood indoors instead of just outdoors underneath an awning. To keep it from rotting.

[Songbird]

Originally posted by Jigain:

Wood is not robust. Unless treated, wood decomposes due to being a biological material when exposed to an outdoors environment. That's the reason why, say, woodyards keep their wood indoors instead of just outdoors underneath an awning. To keep it from rotting.

You are completely wrong about this. Logs and unseasoned wood is stored outside with only a roof. Not only does storing wood inside prevent air circulation which increses drying time it also increases the chance of fungus causing rot because of the said lack of air. Look at large lumberyards, they don't even have any roofs for refined wood blocks and those are stored multiple weeks outside exposed before being sold.

The same thing with metals. I work for a large train producer and most of the material is stored outside in large quanities for multiple projects for several weeks depending on the quantity of an order and I have never heard of a case of rust in our trains.

Not saying it is impossable for materials to detoriate, but the amount of time it requires is extremely long.

The sole reason this happens ingame at all is for balancing reasons.

[Jigain]

Originally posted by Songbird:

Not only does storing wood inside prevent air circulation which increses drying time it also increases the chance of fungus causing rot because of the said lack of air. Look at large lumberyards, they don't even have any roofs for refined wood blocks and those are stored multiple weeks outside exposed before being sold.

I think you'll find storing wood in a dehumidified indoors environment will not promote fungi, but rather that storing them in the humid outdoors will accelerate said fungi growth rate. For fungi to thrive, the moisture level needs to be 19% or higher. Stored properly in a cool, dehumidified interior area will prevent this, allowing for years of storage. Which is why, as I said, woodyards keep their wood for long-term storage indoors.

As for metals, the rate of oxidization depends largely on the type of metal, the environment it is in, and if any oxidization proofing has been applied. If we're talking general steel, unproofed, the oxidization period can start within 2-5 days. But since steel doesn't deteriorate in this game, we can likely safely assume it's some variant of stainless steel. So I assume you're referring to components? Components would be pieces of electronic equipment, and I feel I don't need to tell you have happens to those when left in a humid environment for too long. There's a reason you're not recommended to leave electronics in your bathroom while you shower, for instance.

[Songbird]

Originally posted by Jigain:

Originally posted by Songbird:

Not only does storing wood inside prevent air circulation which increses drying time it also increases the chance of fungus causing rot because of the said lack of air. Look at large lumberyards, they don't even have any roofs for refined wood blocks and those are stored multiple weeks outside exposed before being sold.

I think you'll find storing wood in a dehumidified indoors environment will not promote fungi, but rather that storing them in the humid outdoors will accelerate said fungi growth rate. For fungi to thrive, the moisture level needs to be 19% or higher. Stored properly in a cool, dehumidified interior area will prevent this, allowing for years of storage. Which is why, as I said, woodyards keep their wood for long-term storage indoors.

As for metals, the rate of oxidization depends largely on the type of metal, the environment it is in, and if any oxidization proofing has been applied. If we're talking general steel, unproofed, the oxidization period can start within 2-5 days. But since steel doesn't deteriorate in this game, we can likely safely assume it's some variant of stainless steel. So I assume you're referring to components? Components would be pieces of electronic equipment, and I feel I don't need to tell you have happens to those when left in a humid environment for too long. There's a reason you're not recommended to leave electronics in your bathroom while you shower, for instance.

Again, lumberyards do not store indoors as you are suggesting. Plenty of pictures of how wood is stored in a permanent environment in lumberyards on Google, alternatively you can ask a friendly woodworker in your vincinity. There are usually large open storage areas for refined wood next to lumbermills aswell. When picking wood together with a carpenter you usually visit those storages and most good carpenters will suggest using wood that dried atleast for 1 year outside before using it.

For private use, we mostly talk about firewood. These are storen in open sheds, again to prevent rotting. You usually dry wood for 3-4 years until you burn it. I never had anything go moldy outside and anyone who uses firewood will tell you the same thing.

On metals, stainless steel does deteriorate albeit slower than regular metals. On the other part I ment metal just as I wrote it, if I ment electrical components I would have written it.

[Jigain]

Either the climate you live in is very different from mine (specifically significantly dryer), or you're trying to pull my leg.

I've got a woodyard less than five minutes away from where I live. I know the layout pretty well, due to having worked there for eighteen months. And the wood is stored indoors. To prevent rot. This is also how I know about the 19% limit. There's some budget wood stored outside under a roofed construction, if you aren't picky with what you get, but we often had to sort through it and discard the rotten or malformed pieces, either in their entirety or in segments.

Stainless steel does oxidize, aye. At a slower pace. Pretty sure I made that clear. But if you did specifically mean stainless steel (which would be the "Steel" material in game, which does not deteriorate), I'm not sure why you're pointing that out as an axample of items that shouldn't deteriorate outside.