RimWorld

RimWorld

Myriad Aug 10, 2018 @ 8:27pm
Heat and insulation help?
I know there are a lot of topics on this already, But I haven't found a solution and I'm having trouble getting my Coolers to stay cold and my living area to stay comfortable.

One question is my meat freezer. It's about a 15x15, doubled walled, with 3 Coolers set to -75C. The temperature outside is a +44C heat wave, and my meats are spoiling because it's +15C in my cooler.

Is the answer that 3 isn't enough and I just have to keep adding more Coolers for the desired temperature? Also the area with the cooler is naturally only one space thick. Should I vent into an indoor room instead, and does it matter if I put all coolers adjacent in a line or space them out?

I've experimented with double doors, double doors with a space in between, and even filled the space with a third door, but it doesnt change anything.


Another question is having Heaters and Coolers in the living areas. I keep both on the same temperature and change them to extremely hot in the Winter, to about -10C in the summer. Still the temperature gets into uncomfortable zones. My exterior walls are also 2 thick, with the exception of the Coolers, due to needing to be vented on both sides.

Why can you set a Heater to a minus temperature and a Cooler to a plus temperature? Does it do anything or is it just a universal thermostat control? Should I manually toggle the power off on every single Heater in the summer (switches wouldn't work the greatest in this situation), and do the same with all my air conditioning Coolers in the winter, or just keep them all the same temperature when I change them back and forth like I've been doing?

If anyone can shed some understanding on the topic that would be great. Is it even possible to have a completely insulated freezer where the temperature matches the dial in the middle of summer?
< >
Showing 1-15 of 21 comments
Astasia Aug 10, 2018 @ 8:41pm 
The area where the coolers exhaust into matters a lot, the cooler that area the better. Trying to exhaust into a small area creates too much heat at the output causing the coolers to not function very well.

It does not matter if the coolers are right next to each other or not, their placement doesn't matter.

Double doors, AKA an air lock, doesn't allow the freezer to get any colder, what it does is makes it so less cold air escapes when colonists are walking in and out. When a colonist enters the freezer the cold air only goes into the one tile airlock, very little is lost, it saves a trivial amount of power and isn't really important but you might as well use one anyway.

Changing the temperature on a heater or cooler beyond the temperature it's capable of reaching doesn't change how much it outputs. So if you have 3 coolers set to -75C and they are only cooling down to 15C, then if those coolers were set to 14C they would be working just as hard and hitting the same 15C temperature. The temperature you set them to is the temperature they will try to hit, and they will always run at full power if they aren't hitting that target.
Last edited by Astasia; Aug 10, 2018 @ 8:42pm
Nightmyre Aug 10, 2018 @ 8:47pm 
From what I've read, double-walls don't help. Double-doors don't really help either, except if you make it so that you never have a door open to the outside - IE you have a door, a hall, a door. But realistically, it's not even necessary.

As for setting a heater to minus / cooler to plus - the heater only activates if the temp is below it's set temperature, and the cooler only activates if the temp is above it's set temperature. What I usually do when I need multiple, is to set each one degree off from the other - so for my freezers I'll have -5 and -4 for example, and for my normal air conditioners I'd have 17 and 18.

A 10x10 freezer is quite large - not sure why you feel the need to store so much meat / food. Your non-meat food can be stored in a normal storage area without a freezer, and 100 units of meat is a ton of meat to have on hand, especially since one power outage and you lose a ton of stuff.

I usually only store around 4-5 piles of meat, in my kitchen. My normal setup is to have my kitchen be the stove, and then three lines of 5, one with veggies, one with meat, and one with food, for a total storage space of 15 units. Next to that, I have a freezer, with 15 units of space as well, which stocks only animal corpses. These two are separated by a wall with a door, and each has its own wall and door to enter. The kitchen and the corpse storage area both have two air conditioners each, with only one apiece on at any given time, the other being there for heat waves. When cooking, I turn the AC in the kitchen off, to speed the cooking up.
TLP/)Sermok Aug 10, 2018 @ 9:02pm 
This is really werid beacuse from what you're saying it "should" work just the way you're wanting it to work. Can you post a screenshot of your set up?

Just so we're clear you have a walled in space with walls of stone or steel with a tile or flagstone or stone floor with a steel or stone door (or set of doors) with the only exception to these walls are coolers who specificaly vent the red side of its instalation out into the outdoors with the blue side of the instaltion into the cooler area. I don't mean to be condesending but something wrong with that might be what we're looking for in the problem. Like I said a screen shot would help. I've never had an issue with a freezer even in a superbad heat wave.
luckymarine Aug 11, 2018 @ 1:24am 
If it's a heat wave and your coolers are struggling, just add more coolers, another 2 should be powerful enough to do the trick, you can always switch the additional coolers off when out of the heatwave, just have them as emergency backup.

If things get really bad (meat is starting to spoil) I usually just forbid all doors leading into the freezer area for a while till the temp can regulate itself, a good backup of simple meals is nice to have.
Create another small room adjacent to your freezer with a vent into the freezer itself. Allows you to cool that room but is not going to let as much warm air into the freezer when your colonists walk into the room to retrieve meals, as the interior temp should be cooler than outside.
If in doubt throw down some temp wooden coolers.

I like to try and utilise the exhaust of my coolers using a vent system you can warm your living quarters up quite nicely with what is essentially a waste product, same with geotherm, fully roofed off you can direct some nice heat into the base whilst venting excess outside once summer hits.
Myriad Aug 11, 2018 @ 2:46am 
Thanks for all the answers. I'll reply to a few for some added info.
Originally posted by Astasia:
The area where the coolers exhaust into matters a lot, the cooler that area the better. Trying to exhaust into a small area creates too much heat at the output causing the coolers to not function very well.
I have them venting directly outdoors without any roof over the exhaust area.



Originally posted by Nightmyre:
A 10x10 freezer is quite large - not sure why you feel the need to store so much meat / food. Your non-meat food can be stored in a normal storage area without a freezer, and 100 units of meat is a ton of meat to have on hand, especially since one power outage and you lose a ton of stuff.
I was in a bad situation where I ran out of food in the winter. Everyone was starving and it took intense micro-hunting every rodent I was lucky enough to find. I pulled through it, and I want to make sure that doesn't happen again. 99% of all food spoils, even if it takes a quadrum, so when harvest time comes my freezer gets filled with corn, potatoes and rice.



Originally posted by TLP/)Sermok:
This is really werid beacuse from what you're saying it "should" work just the way you're wanting it to work. Can you post a screenshot of your set up?

Just so we're clear you have a walled in space with walls of stone or steel with a tile or flagstone or stone floor with a steel or stone door (or set of doors) with the only exception to these walls are coolers who specificaly vent the red side of its instalation out into the outdoors with the blue side of the instaltion into the cooler area. I don't mean to be condesending but something wrong with that might be what we're looking for in the problem. Like I said a screen shot would help. I've never had an issue with a freezer even in a superbad heat wave.
My freezer is double walled with wood. From what I understood, the type of material doesn't matter. I only have problems during heat waves, but even during regular summer days, the temperature in the freezer is at least 20 degrees warmer than the dial. If I set it at -30C, it's still usually about -4C in there during the summer. And some days in the winter the temp drops down to around 10C, which is enough for them to complain about sleeping in the cold.

I'd post a screenshot because it's way easier to see what's going on that way, but I don't know how. I'd love an explanation on how to do it.



Originally posted by luckymarine:
I like to try and utilise the exhaust of my coolers using a vent system you can warm your living quarters up quite nicely with what is essentially a waste product, same with geotherm, fully roofed off you can direct some nice heat into the base whilst venting excess outside once summer hits.
I'd like to experiment with this. Maybe create a pocket in the walls with a vent that I can close, and open another leading outside, if things heat up too much, if that would work.
Astasia Aug 11, 2018 @ 3:02am 
Originally posted by Nightmyre:
From what I've read, double-walls don't help.

Double walls absolutely help. Triple walls do not.

Originally posted by Myriad:
I have them venting directly outdoors without any roof over the exhaust area.

Then you just need more. Higher outdoor temps have an exponential effect on cooler efficiency. 44C is very hot, needing 5 or so coolers for that size freezer at those temps sounds about normal to me. I've had games where I needed like 100 coolers, in multiple layers, to keep internal temps down.
CellNav Aug 11, 2018 @ 5:07am 
To regulate base/freezer temp, I apply my "Open Door Policy".

I start by leaving the interior doors open for the freezer/kitchen/hallway-to-base. The airflow balance looks something like :

Outside <> Freezer < Kitchen > Hallway <> Whatever.

My initial goal is to make the kitchen a refrigerator, allowing raw food and meals to sit on shelving that can last between 6-15 days. The only time I need to adjust is seasonal or during a heat/cold snap. I don't micro-manage the small variances in temp, that's difficult so I accept that the kitchen runs somewhere between 33-49 degrees F. The caveat for a kitchen that's cold is the work speed debuff, not a problem with a highly skilled cook to balance the final speed of the cooking station.

That method allowed me to teach myself how to regulate the temp in the base. From that starting point I can play (adjust) everything else "in-the-base" because my benchmark was the open-door policy. That means adding a vent here or adding a vent there, leaving another door open over there or closing another door here.

99% of my temp regulating is through the use of hallways. The wiki frowns on "long hallways" usage ... I embrace it. I don't use double-thick walls except for defense purposes, I sometimes prefer to surround the base with an air-gap (maintainance shaft with forbidden doors) that can also double as a defense position when the shaft was breached from the outside <--- my suedo killbox as it were.

I don't create large freezers, but then again, I live in short growing zones (20-30 days) so I use Mother Nature to provide cold storage for my raw food silos, only to transfer "low priority" storage (silo) to my "critical priority" storage (freezer), as well as animal food storage (any food over flow goes to the animals at a middle priority).
Last edited by CellNav; Aug 11, 2018 @ 5:09am
Greep Aug 11, 2018 @ 5:10am 
15x15 is pretty huge. You're better off having a smaller storage just for meat that can handle heat wave, and a larget storage for crops that cannot. Storing large corpses is also superior than meat as many large ones have more than 75 meat in them. Make a butcher bill set to butcher whenever stockpile meat < 5. Butcher inside your freezer for maximum efficiency.
Last edited by Greep; Aug 11, 2018 @ 5:13am
Myriad Aug 11, 2018 @ 5:38am 
Originally posted by Astasia:
Originally posted by Myriad:
I have them venting directly outdoors without any roof over the exhaust area.

Then you just need more. Higher outdoor temps have an exponential effect on cooler efficiency. 44C is very hot, needing 5 or so coolers for that size freezer at those temps sounds about normal to me. I've had games where I needed like 100 coolers, in multiple layers, to keep internal temps down.
100 coolers? You go big! I guess in my situation I just don't have enough. I'm going to double my heaters and air conditioning coolers, and add a couple more coolers to my freezer and see if I can stabilize this all year round.



Originally posted by CellNav:
I don't create large freezers, but then again, I live in short growing zones (20-30 days) so I use Mother Nature to provide cold storage for my raw food silos, only to transfer "low priority" storage (silo) to my "critical priority" storage (freezer), as well as animal food storage (any food over flow goes to the animals at a middle priority).

Originally posted by Greep:
15x15 is pretty huge. You're better off having a smaller storage just for meat that can handle heat wave, and a larget storage for crops that cannot. Storing large corpses is also superior than meat as many large ones have more than 75 meat in them. Make a butcher bill set to butcher whenever stockpile meat < 5. Butcher inside your freezer for maximum efficiency.
Some good advice all around. I'll set some overflow priorities and keep more large corpses on hand instead of setting it to butcher forever.
TLP/)Sermok Aug 11, 2018 @ 8:23am 
Is cooking inside of the freezer really a thing? I would think the person would get a work penalty for bad temperature being worse then the efficency penalty for walking through the auto door twice.

I'm quite miffed that I've never needed rock or steel for insulation on the freezer. oh well learn something new in this game every time you play.
Last edited by TLP/)Sermok; Aug 11, 2018 @ 8:24am
sbmarauderman03 Aug 11, 2018 @ 10:49am 
99% of the time my freezer area is 6x6 and I use 2 coolers set to 8F & 10F; if a heatwave hits I'll bump them down ~30 degrees to combat it, but my freezer will still 'warm up' to just above freezing when my pawns are making meals...the constant in/out raises the temp.

A 15x15 single-walled area would need at least 6 coolers. How many colonists do you have? If you have less than 10, then I'd decrease the size of the cooler, or divide it into 2 seperate rooms where one room has the 3 coolers and keep the meat, corpses, and meals in that room and use the other room to store veggies.
Last edited by sbmarauderman03; Aug 11, 2018 @ 10:51am
Astasia Aug 11, 2018 @ 1:15pm 
Originally posted by Myriad:
100 coolers? You go big! I guess in my situation I just don't have enough. I'm going to double my heaters and air conditioning coolers, and add a couple more coolers to my freezer and see if I can stabilize this all year round.

Oh it wasn't that big at all, it was just super hot. A single cooler does almost nothing on a map that's over 100C.
Myriad Aug 11, 2018 @ 3:06pm 
Originally posted by sbmarauderman03:
A 15x15 single-walled area would need at least 6 coolers. How many colonists do you have? If you have less than 10, then I'd decrease the size of the cooler, or divide it into 2 seperate rooms where one room has the 3 coolers and keep the meat, corpses, and meals in that room and use the other room to store veggies.
I have 15 colonists, which took a while to get to. I lost 4 colonists to Malaria in the early game, when I only had 7. I almost gave up hope, but forced myself to move forward without them. I had no medicine..... They were my 4 best... really.. My Nudist Paramedic, Fox. My Teacher, Togawa. My Smuggler, Latch. And my Clerk, Marina. I just visited their graves. You guys were one of a kind.. Sorry, had to leave some sort of a tribute.

Ahem, back to the topic, I increased the number of Heaters and Coolers, and that seems to be the key. I never realized you needed so many of them. Things are stable and the temperature actually matches what the thermostat is set to. First time seeing that...

I have a large freezer area because after my devastating loss, I decided that I will never run out of Healroot again, and went large scale farming. I also battled starvation, so it made sense to do.

Power isn't an issue. Digging out enough Compacted Machinery and Steel in the beginning wasn't a problem for 2 Wind Turbines, 6 Solar Generators, and a dozen Batteries. I have since added 3 Geothermal Generaters. Better to have too much than not enough, right?
sbmarauderman03 Aug 11, 2018 @ 3:47pm 
Originally posted by Myriad:

I have a large freezer area because after my devastating loss, I decided that I will never run out of Healroot again, and went large scale farming. I also battled starvation, so it made sense to do.

I understand the bigger cooler for more food, but healroot takes over a year to spoil so you really don't need to keep it frozen, unless you have some that's just days away from spoiling.

It's also been my experience that the more meds you have, the more often events occur that cause injury/sickness to your colonists. Whenever I've had a crap-ton of meds, that's when malaria/plague/etc seems to happen more frequently. The game is constantly balancing things, so the more meds you have, the more injuries/sickness it RNGs to decrease your supply, IMO.

Another example: In my current game I had a plan to stockpile bionic eyes b/c in my last game I had most colonists with eye injuries. For quite a while, no one had a serious eye injury until I bought my 4th & 5th bionic eye (had a trader with 2 of 'em for sale, so I bought them both). It's been a year, maybe 2, since I bought the last 2 eyes and I've had to use all 5 that I had and still have 2 colonists that need a bionic eye.
Last edited by sbmarauderman03; Aug 11, 2018 @ 3:49pm
Myriad Aug 11, 2018 @ 7:58pm 
Originally posted by sbmarauderman03:
Another example: In my current game I had a plan to stockpile bionic eyes b/c in my last game I had most colonists with eye injuries. For quite a while, no one had a serious eye injury until I bought my 4th & 5th bionic eye (had a trader with 2 of 'em for sale, so I bought them both). It's been a year, maybe 2, since I bought the last 2 eyes and I've had to use all 5 that I had and still have 2 colonists that need a bionic eye.
Lol. RNG is just wacked on Smokeleaf. I've experienced the opposite. It's when I run out of medicine that some disease will strike. And it's when a power conduit blows a hole in my wall that I get a Raid as my turrets go down, only to notice one of my guys decided to wander into a bugs nest to pick up a chunk of stone. Or the dry Flashstorm that hits when you're being attacked by a pack of manhunting cougars while your guys are still recovering from a different bug hunt gone bad.

I have tended to a lot of illnesses, but never noticed if they increased in frequency, though they may have. I was just happy to throw my infinite supply of medicine at them. I think the game's going to try to get you one way or the other, especially if you're not paying attention or make a mistake.
< >
Showing 1-15 of 21 comments
Per page: 1530 50

Date Posted: Aug 10, 2018 @ 8:27pm
Posts: 21