Best melee weapon?

[Rosario]

So for ranged weapons there's variance depending on what you want, but for melee weapons it seems like it's pretty straight forward, pawns smack each other until one goes down. So what's the best weapon for smacking? Or now thinking what's the best weapon for smacking to death, and what's best for smacking to kill, since I assume a blunt weapon would be better for knocking people out over something that can sever limbs.

[Tarshaid]

Basically the tie is between the plasteel longsword and the uranium mace. Plasteel longsword has better dps, mace has better armor penetration. Then it goes to the difference between a bunch of fast slashing attacks and few strong mace hits. I prefer the mace, since no hit is ever wasted to do something like cut out the third ring finger, instead the hit breaks the hand, and possibly the arm and shoulder at the same time. Any leg hit might just be an instadown/instakill. On the other hand, slashing/piercing weapons have a chance for internal organ damage, and some hits cause extremely severe bleeding, but bleeding is not really optimal to kill someone *right now*.
With that, you should realize that the uranium mace might actually not be the best tool for capturing people, unless you have a steady supply of prosthetics. Some recommend either terrible weapons (like a wooden stick), or knives, who, yes, deal cutting attacks and will make the target bleed a lot, but do no overkill, so a living, downed target just has to be patched out quickyl and should have received minimal long-term damage.

[Rosario]

That was a lot more of an in-depth answer than I was expecting! Thanks!

[KalkiKrosah]

Tharshaid is absolutely right, but there are other factors to consider as well, namely the melee skill of the wielder. Lower skill means lower hit chance. And on high damage weaponry like the long sword there is more "recovery" between attacks. Missing with a longsword swing is a bigger deal than with a knife. So a beginner melee fighter might be better suited wielding a knife than wielding a longsword.

Every weapon type has their advantages and disadvantages. Ideally you want to mix and match the appropriate weaponry type to the situation you find yourself in. This is the melee weapon tier system in the vanilla Rimworld:

Blades: knife -> gladius -> Longsword
Blunts: fists -> club -> mace
Stab: Ilkwa -> spear

Blades have the highest raw damage, but poor armor penetration. They are great against wild animals and the tribal hordes. They struggle against armor, so they struggle against mechanoids and insects. They cause bleed to happen as well, where consecutive stacks of bleeding can incapacitate a target through blood loss. And blood loss lowers an opponent's effectiveness in battle.

Blunts are the opposite of blades. Low raw damage but high armor penetration. They are most effective against mechanoids, bugs and heavily armored raiders. They don't really struggle against anything per say, but their low base damage means that there are often better options against the standard enemy. They have the added effect of being able to down an enemy instead of outright killing them and typically avoid dealing scars or permanent damage.

Stab weapons are your jack-
of-all trades option. They are decent in raw damage and armor penetration. If resources are extremely limited and you need a weapon for all combat situations that you can equip and forget then a spear is what you want. Spears can deal all types of damage (cut, bash, puncture, etc) but prioritizes stabbing. On the surface a stab is the same as a cut but stabs have the greatest chance of dealing internal damage. A lesser skilled fighter can "get lucky" against a superior and better equipped opponent with one well placed stab through the torso and into the heart. Which is why tribals spam produce it. It's all RNG but give it enough chances to fire and it will produce a clutch attack for you.

Lastly is weapon size. Smaller weapons deal lower damage but have shorter recovery times resulting in faster attacks. Bigger weapons are on the opposite end. Typically the bigger the target, the bigger the weapon. Which is why a longsword is not a good choice against man hunting squirrels. Attack speed is better against smaller targets. A big weapon may be able to one hit kill a target but the low attack speed makes it a bad choice against large horses of small targets. Likewise, a knife just isn't going to cut it when a bear starts to maul you.

The way I equip my melee fighters is like this:

Melee skill 12+ = Longsword or Mace
Melee skill 7 - 11 = Spear, Gladius or Mace
Melee skill 3 - 6 = Ilkwa, knife or club
Melee skill 0 - 2 = Knife, Ilkwa or gun

[Kiwi]

Originally posted by KalkiKrosah:

Tharshaid is absolutely right, but there are other factors to consider as well, namely the melee skill of the wielder. Lower skill means lower hit chance. And on high damage weaponry like the long sword there is more "recovery" between attacks. Missing with a longsword swing is a bigger deal than with a knife. So a beginner melee fighter might be better suited wielding a knife than wielding a longsword.

Every weapon type has their advantages and disadvantages. Ideally you want to mix and match the appropriate weaponry type to the situation you find yourself in. This is the melee weapon tier system in the vanilla Rimworld:

Blades: knife -> gladius -> Longsword
Blunts: fists -> club -> mace
Stab: Ilkwa -> spear

Blades have the highest raw damage, but poor armor penetration. They are great against wild animals and the tribal hordes. They struggle against armor, so they struggle against mechanoids and insects. They cause bleed to happen as well, where consecutive stacks of bleeding can incapacitate a target through blood loss. And blood loss lowers an opponent's effectiveness in battle.

Blunts are the opposite of blades. Low raw damage but high armor penetration. They are most effective against mechanoids, bugs and heavily armored raiders. They don't really struggle against anything per say, but their low base damage means that there are often better options against the standard enemy. They have the added effect of being able to down an enemy instead of outright killing them and typically avoid dealing scars or permanent damage.

Stab weapons are your jack-
of-all trades option. They are decent in raw damage and armor penetration. If resources are extremely limited and you need a weapon for all combat situations that you can equip and forget then a spear is what you want. Spears can deal all types of damage (cut, bash, puncture, etc) but prioritizes stabbing. On the surface a stab is the same as a cut but stabs have the greatest chance of dealing internal damage. A lesser skilled fighter can "get lucky" against a superior and better equipped opponent with one well placed stab through the torso and into the heart. Which is why tribals spam produce it. It's all RNG but give it enough chances to fire and it will produce a clutch attack for you.

Lastly is weapon size. Smaller weapons deal lower damage but have shorter recovery times resulting in faster attacks. Bigger weapons are on the opposite end. Typically the bigger the target, the bigger the weapon. Which is why a longsword is not a good choice against man hunting squirrels. Attack speed is better against smaller targets. A big weapon may be able to one hit kill a target but the low attack speed makes it a bad choice against large horses of small targets. Likewise, a knife just isn't going to cut it when a bear starts to maul you.

The way I equip my melee fighters is like this:

Melee skill 12+ = Longsword or Mace
Melee skill 7 - 11 = Spear, Gladius or Mace
Melee skill 3 - 6 = Ilkwa, knife or club
Melee skill 0 - 2 = Knife, Ilkwa or gun

This needs to be pinned!

[Zalec]

@KaikiKrosah Thanks for your in depth explanation

[anarcher]

Best melee weapon is situational, but I've found that a wall of attack animals is better for melee than any colonist weapon. Thrumbos obviously deal the most damage and can tank a lot of it, elephants and megas will be more realistic. A few dozen small, hard to hit critters are great, tortoises and cobras in particular.

[KalkiKrosah]

Originally posted by anarcher:

Best melee weapon is situational, but I've found that a wall of attack animals is better for melee than any colonist weapon. Thrumbos obviously deal the most damage and can tank a lot of it, elephants and megas will be more realistic. A few dozen small, hard to hit critters are great, tortoises and cobras in particular.

Animals are expendable (most of the time) and cobras are very underrated. They don't eat much food, but are strictly carnivores. I usually feed them corpses or scraps of meat anyway. Their diet allows you to mass produce them which is how they can best be used. Their main downsides is their durability and their cold resistance. They may require a heated room in a colder biome and they don't take much abuse in a melee.

I like to send my cobras to a zone nearby the enemy firing squad to draw their fire, while my main force rushes in to close the gap. When the main squad engages the enemy shooters in melee I send my cobras in to assist. Because they get to the melee later they survive a bit longer and their toxins go to work rather quickly if you bunch up your cobras on one target. Blunt weapons and cobra toxins makes for a very reliable way to down an enemy instead of killing them.

Good pairings for cobras are panthers and turtles. Panthers are super fast and will close a gap quickly allowing cobras to do less "waiting around" and getting shot at. Turtles can be mixed in with cobra herds to give enemy shooters something else to shoot at and are slower but more durable than cobras.

[Rosario]

Wow, there is a LOT more going into melee combat than I thought! I guess I shouldn't be surprised since the game goes so far as to have things like individual fingers and toes factor into colonist health.

[KalkiKrosah]

Originally posted by Rosario:

Wow, there is a LOT more going into melee combat than I thought! I guess I shouldn't be surprised since the game goes so far as to have things like individual fingers and toes factor into colonist health.

Every weapon has its use, even the crappy ones. There's a lot that goes into it and I didn't include all of it in my previous post. Weapon condition, weapon quality and weapon materials play a role too.

Condition is the shape its in. If you leave it out in the outdoors it will begin to rust and rot. I kind of wish there was a way to refurbish them but in vanilla you can't. Weapons are either brand new or deteriorated. Just keep your idle weaponry indoors, or on a shelf to avoid any deterioration. The severely deteriorated weapons can still be smelted down for parts so that's the best use of all those dropped tribal spears laying around.

Weapon quality is how well its made. Skilled crafters make the best quality weapons. Excellent or better quality melee weapons can increase accuracy, armor penetration and damage output itself. Which is different from guns who never get a damage boost based on quality. Ideally you want to raise up one dedicated weapon smith to make everything for you since you only get one instance to affect weapon quality.

Weapon materials affect stats too. The best cut and thrust material is plasteel, the best blunt material is technically jade but jade can only be used in clubs. Uranium is the best material for making maces.

As a side note, wooden weapons dish out poor damage per hit (low damage and armor penetration) but their light weight makes them swing faster. If you have a colonist who has a burning passion for melee but has low skill in it, give them a wooden knife or a wooden club and have them attack rabbits or squirrels. They will get roughed up a bit but their melee skill should raise up quickly. And wooded clubs can be kept by the prison bay. Fleeing prisoners will grab the wooden clubs over other weapons which should save your own colonists from taking serious injuries. Wooden clubs can also be used on the prisoners to down them instead of killing them. Because killing a dangerous prisoner grants a mood debuff because they were innocent...

[MayoCulpa]

This is fantastic info. Y'know I saw in the talk on the wiki that some of the weapons pages would benefit from a writing style upgrade, in case any of the good folks above had spare time for it. That'd be even better than a pin in terms of getting the knowledge out there