To Ludeon Studios regarding Multiplayer

[BlueHawk89]

Not sure if you will read this, but I hope you will consider adding multiplayer to the base game. I know there is a mod that allows this feature called Multiplayer, but if you would consider working with them to add this mod to the base game hopefully more people who build mods will make them available for multiplayer.

Out of the 180,106 Unique Visitors (as of 07-NOV-2019 21:45) 104,305 users have subscribed to the Multiplayer mod. That is roughly 58% of those who viewed the mod were interested enough to download it, and 180,106 people who were interested in viewing it.

I hope you will consider/reconsider adding multiplayer capability. Thank you for your time.

Link to the Multiplayer mod for peoples convenience:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1752864297&searchtext=multiplayer

[LIMP BISQUICK]

Paladin の投稿を引用：

It is fine if you use developers tools to build something or use parts of game code (build in functions or smth). But if I make mod myself, use third party software to make it, not what developer have rights on. Like xml config files, textures, art, sounds, videos or anything else, that do not require game itself to use it. That is not ok.

I agree. Wasn't there some kind of law that was introduced in recent years which required Devs to enforce these kind of EULA's on us - or ones that seem to be more invasive than the past? I wonder Astasia - But there seems to be a lot that touches up on the whole copyright infringement. I always interpreted as -you forfeit ownership of mod to Ludeon, allowing THEM to claim copyright infringements. Also if it's true that they couldn't "bypass basic legal rights" Then wouldn't the whole EULA be void? Make it risky for devs right? Idk, I'm not gonna sit here and act like I know a thing or two about these things cause I really dont haha They have made me questioned topics like these for quite some time tho

[Astasia]

So imagine you played a game, and the next day somebody came to your house and told you they own it and you need to leave now, because the EULA for that game said by accepting the agreement you have to hand over your house. Obviously that's nonsense and they wouldn't get away with it right? It's exactly the same with your copyrights on your original works, it's something you own and a EULA can't make you hand it over.

[Preechr]

Assumption of ownership can also protect the mod author. As Astasia said, there are a lot of instances where such assumption would obviously not apply, but when everyone is playing nice there are several good reasons where a game like RimWorld should say that everything having to do with RimWorld IS RimWorld.

[Preechr]

..and for the OP, feature requests are generally much more visible on Ludeon's forums, and if you want to make sure Tynan sees something there's always twitter.

[Morkonan]

Astasia の投稿を引用：

To be fair, most of that wouldn't hold up in any courtroom anyway. If you make a mod that contains custom sprites for example and upload it to the workshop and Tynan tries to add it to the game without your permission, that's copyright infringement, it's art you have created and own the rights to, and no EULA can bypass basic legal rights. ...

Copyright is fairly automatic for original works, but that does not mean it has the status of an unalienable human right. It can be legally transferred. However, random "original works" first need their provenance confirmed/validated before they're eligible for Copyright considerations. (keep notes, peeps) The EULA is worded so that a non-exclusive transfer is negotiated and agreed to right on the "Accept" button.

However... :)

The EULA does not mention exclusivity. In fact, it acknowledges that the creator "owns" the created content even if it is used by Ludeon. Ludeon can opt to use it for free or can negotiate other arrangements with the creator.

A sticking point with that EULA, from what you pasted, is that it is somewhat vague in regards to how the creator chooses to distribute their created content. The creator does not have to use Rimworld to distribute their created content... In fact, there isn't a mechanism in the program that acts to distribute any content whatsoever. (I haven't read the whole EULA recently, so don't know if it covers any/all third-party created products meant for use with the game. "Distributing" content being interpreted as a player playing the game and getting to see it is kinda iffy, since that isn't within the power of the creator to affect. IMO, it's a blanket statement in a dynamic world that hopes someone doesn't examine it too closely. :) )

And, it's difficult to say "forever" in something like that. I assume that's why Ludeon isn't claiming sole ownership of the copyright to any mod contents. At best, in a legal situation, a mod creator may get some sort of small compensation based on an estimate of the value of their work. Even so, I doubt there would be any recourse for a creator, since their original copyright and ownership of the work has not be subsumed. (Visual art and other things outside of code relying on Rimworld hooks/whatever.)

But, the intent is clear if the other bits were argued over and cleared up to allow the EULA to be applicable - Ludeon wants to be able to use and/or profit from anything someone creates that is meant to be used as an addition for Rimworld. That would include any visual artwork or images that are original works of the creator of a mod. Ludeon also wishes to protect itself from litigation as it acts on those rights. That doesn't invalidate the creator's copyright to the original work, however. It only effects their rights in regards to the publishing/use of their work by Ludeon. (There are no restrictions on that use that I can see, btw. Tynan could publish a pop-up book full of the art of modders if he wanted to.)

And, while EULAs like this are somewhat standard, their intent isn't necessarily to deny creators a chance to profit from their labor. It's designed to protect Ludeon from some modder getting angry that their content was "a good idea" and that Ludeon decided to add that or similar functions to the base game distribution. A sort of "Beta Test EULA" if you will. I've seen some Beta EULAs that go so far as to claim ownership of anything a tester said/wrote/thunked up, too, like suggestions for improvements and the like. That's even in the face of the fact that an "idea" can't be copyrighted. It's a demonstration of the extremes that developers sometimes have to go through in protecting themselves from litigation. It's probably the first thing a lawyer said when sitting across from a developer discussing how to handle player input, mods, testing suggestions, etc... "C.Y.A." :)

PS - I am not an attorney. Also, Copyright law may have specific interpretations determined by country. There should be a domain reference regarding the jurisdiction for the EULA's legal action/arbitration that clears that up. Also - As a condition of Valve/Steam and its Workshop, used to distribute mods, there could be things there that would have to be examined, though Ludeon may or may not be a party to them.

[GamingWithSilvertail]

Jibbles の投稿を引用：

Paladin の投稿を引用：

It is fine if you use developers tools to build something or use parts of game code (build in functions or smth). But if I make mod myself, use third party software to make it, not what developer have rights on. Like xml config files, textures, art, sounds, videos or anything else, that do not require game itself to use it. That is not ok.

I agree. Wasn't there some kind of law that was introduced in recent years which required Devs to enforce these kind of EULA's on us - or ones that seem to be more invasive than the past? I wonder Astasia - But there seems to be a lot that touches up on the whole copyright infringement. I always interpreted as -you forfeit ownership of mod to Ludeon, allowing THEM to claim copyright infringements. Also if it's true that they couldn't "bypass basic legal rights" Then wouldn't the whole EULA be void? Make it risky for devs right? Idk, I'm not gonna sit here and act like I know a thing or two about these things cause I really dont haha They have made me questioned topics like these for quite some time tho

Nope, cause the devs can simply cease and exist such mods and implement there own way.

Its really that simple....

Just bnecause ideas are used doesnt mean there's also copy of works.

[easytarget]

You guys must be really bored today.

[sbmarauderman03]

easytarget の投稿を引用：

You guys must be really bored today.

I must be as well...I just read most of the drivel in this thread...lol.

[Kittenpox]

easytarget の投稿を引用：

You guys must be really bored today.

Not really - it's an interesting topic with which to throw in hypotheticals. (The pop-up book, for example.)

Just because it's not yet another thread asking why Ludeon hasn't balanced Red Dragons properly (I have two palms and not enough faces :-p ), that doesn't mean it's "boring". :-)

What some people find intriguing doesn't necessarily have to have the same effect on others.
Not looking to derail the thread by mentioning this game, but as an example: The concept of Fortnite bores the hell out of me - but some people quite enjoy it. This is okay. ^_^

[sbmarauderman03]

Kittenpox の投稿を引用：

easytarget の投稿を引用：

You guys must be really bored today.

Not really - it's an interesting topic with which to throw in hypotheticals. (The pop-up book, for example.)

Just because it's not yet another thread asking why Ludeon hasn't balanced Red Dragons properly (I have two palms and not enough faces :-p ), that doesn't mean it's "boring". :-)

What some people find intriguing doesn't necessarily have to have the same effect on others.
Not looking to derail the thread by mentioning this game, but as an example: The concept of Fortnite bores the hell out of me - but some people quite enjoy it. This is okay. ^_^

Good Lord...stfu. Just a couple of peeps making an off-the-cuff comment and you gotta get all serious about it...smh.

[Kittenpox]

sbmarauderman03 の投稿を引用：

Kittenpox の投稿を引用：

Not really - it's an interesting topic with which to throw in hypotheticals. (The pop-up book, for example.)

Just because it's not yet another thread asking why Ludeon hasn't balanced Red Dragons properly (I have two palms and not enough faces :-p ), that doesn't mean it's "boring". :-)

What some people find intriguing doesn't necessarily have to have the same effect on others.
Not looking to derail the thread by mentioning this game, but as an example: The concept of Fortnite bores the hell out of me - but some people quite enjoy it. This is okay. ^_^

Good Lord...stfu. Just a couple of peeps making an off-the-cuff comment and you gotta get all serious about it...smh.

♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ block me then.

[Bozobub]

Astasia の投稿を引用：

Ya they aren't even fixing bugs anymore, devs have completely moved on. If you want something in the game now it's going to be mods or nothing.

Um, no. What do you think the mod loading problem fixes were? There's just not that many bugs left to squish.

Morkonan の投稿を引用：

That doesn't invalidate the creator's copyright to the original work, however. It only effects their rights in regards to the publishing/use of their work by Ludeon.

No. Reread the EULA; it specifically states you also agree to allow Ludeon to let OTHERS (besides Ludeon) use/modify/sell/etc. your mod(s):

You also agree to let Ludeon permit other people to use, copy, modify, adapt, distribute, and publicly display your content, for free or as part of a commercial arrangement.

[Astasia]

Bozobub の投稿を引用：

Um, no. What do you think the mod loading problem fixes were? There's just not that many bugs left to squish.

The mod loading thing wasn't a bug fix, it was an optimization of an "out of game" system by one of the side devs (not Tynan) likely in their own time. That was six months ago. A few months earlier they released a "technical update" which also didn't touch any gameplay systems and just fixed some undocumented technical issues, and the update before that just addressed some resolution issues on Macs. There hasn't been a single proper bug fix update since 1.0 came out.

There are plenty of long standing well known bugs, many of which you can find mods to fix. A big obvious one includes the manhunter event breaking above certain threat levels. Other issues include caravan food eaten per day being wrong, allow fresh/rotten breaking on stockpiles in some situations, trap rearm states resetting on game load, insects changing faction after recovering from a downed state, some of the head sprites being missed during the great shift and being off center now, and issues with caravan members not unloading when they should in some situations, just to name the ones I can remember. I'm pretty sure all of these bugs have been reported on the ludeon forums, I know at least a couple of them had dev responses when they were reported over a year ago.

[Bozobub]

OK, fair enough; thanks for the correction ^^'.

*ahem*

My OTHER point, however, stands.

[BlueHawk89]

Paladin の投稿を引用：

@BlueHawk89,
- mod author worked hard on this mod for several month
- then other mod authors worked hard to improve it for several month
- all of them public their work for other players
- all of them do not get a cent
- Ludeon Studios takes their work and include in vanilla, gets money for that new feature.

BlueHawk89 logic:
That is fine. That is how modding works. People works hard for free, other people takes all the results and make money on that. Btw, you should never donate to modders, they do not deserve that. Simply take all, and give nothing back.

Oh wow. Dear little Paladin, I see conversing with you would classify me as insane, crazy, etc., so...you can have the last word.

To everyone else thank you very much for your posts.