Why wouldn't you use Sazh and Vanille?

[StingingVelvet]

I'm nearing the end of the game and have experimented a lot and I gotta tell ya, I can't imagine using any other characters than those two. Sazh's haste and elemental buffs are amazing and Vanille's debuffs are great too, and she can heal. They both excel at ravager and boosting the stagger gauge as well.

I guess you could use Fang or Snow as commando instead of Lightning, but I don't see you could do a party without Sazh and Vanille, which is kind of lame in a way.

[C1REX]

How late in the game are you?
Other characters have haste and debufs as well.

[StingingVelvet]

Originally posted by C1REX-PL:

How late in the game are you?
Other characters have haste and debufs as well.

End of chapter 11 in the tower.

Do you mean grinding to give them sphere stuff they don't normally get? I ain't messing with that.

[Ivy in my Heart]

I know you want to gush about Sazh and Vanille and that's honestly cool.
I feel similarly about Lighting - she's a freaking speed monster and an amazing Ravager. In a game whose mechanics are so centered around staggering, I can't imagine not using her.

Let me just answer the question of "why wouldn't anybody use them:" Because the game can be won with many if not all party combinations.

Since the paradigm setup is more important to winning fights than individual stats, and all characters will eventually get access to all roles, every party is viable to a certain degree. Of course, not everybody has access to every spell, so some characters are better suited for certain roles than others, but - at least for the main quest - min-maxing is not necessary.

[StingingVelvet]

Originally posted by Ivy in my Heart:

Let me just answer the question of "why wouldn't anybody use them:" Because the game can be won with many if not all party combinations.

Won for sure, but as well? I have messed with other combinations and without haste and two good ravagers every battle takes longer and I get less 5 star ratings. The sentinel especially seems to just lower my rating dramatically when actually used.

I know others can get everything eventually, but again I don't plan to grind for that.

[ar2games]

Vanille is a must for endgame but Hope is a better synergist than Sazh, those three can make a good team but my go to team is the two I mentioned and Lightning.

I do agree that at the real engame and post game they´re all kinda the same and any combination is good.

[Serafie1999AD]

Hope will learn Haste after Chapter 11, so he'll become a much better Synergist after that. During the main story, I still mostly used Lightning, Sazh and Vanille, but some fights in Chapter 13 will turn you to shreds without a Sentinel, so for those fights, I switch to Lightning, Hope and Fang.

As for the postgame, Sazh is a good jack of all trades, but eventually a master of none, and Snow will handle most of the things better by the time you're doing the final Cie'th Stone missions and fighting Shaolong Guis and Long Guis. At that time, I typically used three out of Lightning, Vanille, Fang and Snow. I didn't use Hope much in the postgame, since he's quite fragile, and he's poor as a Saboteur due to having only -ga debuffs.

[Ivy in my Heart]

Originally posted by StingingVelvet:

I have messed with other combinations and without haste and two good ravagers every battle takes longer

Haste is incredibly valuable, for sure. I personally always equip the Sprint Shoes accessory on everyone - one minute of auto haste gets you through most normal encounters and Cieth Stone missions.

That being said, you do have to grind a bit to get them, so if you don't want to grind at all, a dedicated Synergist is obviously better.

From chapter 11 onwards, I always end up with Lightning, Vanille and Fang, no matter how often I plan on using another party this time. Two main reasons for that, and maybe also an answer to your question why somebody would use another party:
- The first time you can fully choose your own party is after you arrive on Pulse. As this is their home, using Fang and Vanille here just feels right to me.
- I'm in love with the Saboteur class. After years of playing 90s/00s RPGs where enemies can hit you with all kinds of status effects but you can never hit them back, FF13's Saboteur role made me so excited because their whole deal is hitting enemies with status effects. ^^* So here I am, using the two best Sabs in the game.

[Mako]

During main story best party members choice constantly changes. Sazh is offensive synergist, Hope is defensive synergist, but later they learn each other spells so its mostly about stats, and Hope has much higher magic making him better rav and med. Vanille and Fang have similar split in sab role, but Fang is top tier commando and a very good sentinel (essential role for some harder fights). Also Vanille suffers from fighting Eidolon (which unlocks 4th ATB segment) last. Having 4 segments instead of 3 is a big deal, with 4 segments 1 segment fills 30% faster.

[Gnodab]

Endgame party for me is typically Lightning, Fang and Hope. Each has a specialization in all of the main roles, so you can create all sorts of powerful paradigms.

2 Commandos
2 Ravagers
2 Medics
1 Sentinel, Saboteur and Synergist

You have everything you need. For me, Snow has tons of HP but isn't as flexible role-wise, I dislike Sazh's ranged Commando style because of his slow attacks, and Vanille is take her or leave her.

[StingingVelvet]

Originally posted by Serafie1999AD:

Hope will learn Haste after Chapter 11, so he'll become a much better Synergist after that. During the main story, I still mostly used Lightning, Sazh and Vanille, but some fights in Chapter 13 will turn you to shreds without a Sentinel, so for those fights, I switch to Lightning, Hope and Fang.

Yeah I guess my view is based on Chapter 11, which I thought was basically the pre-ending. Sounds like 12 and 13 are longer than I thought.

I never thought about "post game" and have no intention of messing with it, but good to know.

[StingingVelvet]

Having finished the game I would change it to Hope and Vanille lol. Hope is better once he gets haste.

I guess my point is with the combat system being based around obtaining high chains, and needing a medic, saboteur and synergyst, I think it's the obvious best set of people along with a commando like Lightning or Fang.

Anyway... fun combat, nice visuals and sound, ♥♥♥♥♥ story and world.

[Gnodab]

Originally posted by StingingVelvet:

Anyway... fun combat, nice visuals and sound, ♥♥♥♥♥ story and world.

I think the world itself is awesome, just that whoever wrote the story had no profound ideas to express within that setting. Or rather, it felt like the writer was having his mind blown by the story and characters, but nobody else was.

[StingingVelvet]

Originally posted by Gnodab:

I think the world itself is awesome, just that whoever wrote the story had no profound ideas to express within that setting. Or rather, it felt like the writer was having his mind blown by the story and characters, but nobody else was.

Yeah I like the concepts and general plot, I just don't thing they executed on them well.

[SardonicJonez]

I use Fang/Light/Sazh until someone, anyone else gets Haste. I like Fang/Light/Vanille once they are all leveled up. I don't even use Snow. I've played through this game many times and always go back to an all female party. I'm playing through again because I cannot seem to get the Treasure Hunter achievement no matter how meticulous I am. SO.....the main thing I dislike is the boss fights that are not particularly difficult, but are LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG. It's the monotonous hit/heal/hit/heal ones that I really don't enjoy. I'm at one right now and it's giving me heartburn.

[tiornys]

Unless you're very underleveled, if a boss fight is going longer than about 5 minutes, there are things you could be doing to make it shorter. Most of them can be defeated in 2-3 minutes; none should require LOOOONG amounts of time.