[Spoilers] Why are there no new Witchers being trained?

[Kрис]

If there are so few left, we only see 3 that aren't Geralt in this game, then why don't they start training more?

And also considering that Vesemir is dead and Lambert and Eskel decided to leave

[Big Boom Boom]

♥♥♥♥ Mountain eredeti hozzászólása:

There's a couple reasons, most of which have been mentioned already. First of all, Witchers themselves don't know how to make more Wicthers. That's why Yennefer was needed to initiate the Trial of Grasses on Uma, rather then Geralt and company doing so themselves. So when all the people that knew how to make Witchers either left or were killed, no more could be made.

Second, and this applies to Kaer Morhen specifically, there was a peasant revolt in which they attacked the castle and killed almost everyone. Very few Witchers made it out, and none of the sorcerers did. Faced with the realization that the common people would forever hate them, I'd imagine the Witchers decided it would be in their best interests to not continue making more as it could lead to another attack.

Third, Witchers are a relic of the past. Humanity's dominance of the world continues to grow, and soon enough there won't be any monsters to kill. In the books, Geralt has to travel far south because nobody is giving contracts in the north, because there simply aren't any big monsters left. Being a Witcher is a finite profession, because every monster they kill shortens the amount of time they'll be needed.

And also what Yen did was an imitation of the first step of the Trial of Grasse, not the whole trial. The secret to Witcher mutagen is lost. Azar Javed and the Grandmaster, both of whom are very powerful (Azar Javed blasted Triss who is a Sorceress Lodge member like it was nothing, the Grandmaster was a very powerful Source who could travel through time which todate not even the Elven Sage can do) could only make imitation. It's not an easy thing to do and if 3 very powerful mages can't do a complete copy then what can 3 blokes who has no proper magic education do?

[Gritsunorak]

Big Boom Boom eredeti hozzászólása:

♥♥♥♥ Mountain eredeti hozzászólása:

There's a couple reasons, most of which have been mentioned already. First of all, Witchers themselves don't know how to make more Wicthers. That's why Yennefer was needed to initiate the Trial of Grasses on Uma, rather then Geralt and company doing so themselves. So when all the people that knew how to make Witchers either left or were killed, no more could be made.

Second, and this applies to Kaer Morhen specifically, there was a peasant revolt in which they attacked the castle and killed almost everyone. Very few Witchers made it out, and none of the sorcerers did. Faced with the realization that the common people would forever hate them, I'd imagine the Witchers decided it would be in their best interests to not continue making more as it could lead to another attack.

Third, Witchers are a relic of the past. Humanity's dominance of the world continues to grow, and soon enough there won't be any monsters to kill. In the books, Geralt has to travel far south because nobody is giving contracts in the north, because there simply aren't any big monsters left. Being a Witcher is a finite profession, because every monster they kill shortens the amount of time they'll be needed.

And also what Yen did was an imitation of the first step of the Trial of Grasse, not the whole trial. The secret to Witcher mutagen is lost. Azar Javed and the Grandmaster, both of whom are very powerful (Azar Javed blasted Triss who is a Sorceress Lodge member like it was nothing, the Grandmaster was a very powerful Source who could travel through time which todate not even the Elven Sage can do) could only make imitation. It's not an easy thing to do and if 3 very powerful mages can't do a complete copy then what can 3 blokes who has no proper magic education do?

More like Javed blasted Triss, who is the "Fourteenth of the Hill"! ))

[hurepoix]

infertillity. It s only proved, afaik, no hybrid ever born from a witcher and an other race. It a bit like the chaman and Lugos proved no hybrid ever born from a man and a nanny-goat.

[Master Cheeks]

BuzzardBee eredeti hozzászólása:

♥♥♥♥ Mountain eredeti hozzászólása:

It was mostly just good old fashioned prejudice. They basically looked at the stats and said "If we lose 7/10 boys every time, could you imagine the death rate if we used girls?" Boys were believed to be stronger. That's just about it.

Think it had more to do with the infertility factor.


Sorceresses also become infertile during their process but there's no shortage of women who try. I just always saw it as being the same reason there aren't female soldiers in the Witcher universe. Women just weren't held in very high esteem in the 13th century (which seems to be the closest part in our time to the Witcher). They were valued for their ability to give birth and rear children. Some women in the Witcher universe have the benefit of becoming powerful and respected/feared sorceresses, but the vast majority of women have no such luck.

[hurepoix]

BuzzardBee eredeti hozzászólása:

♥♥♥♥ Mountain eredeti hozzászólása:

Women just weren't held in very high esteem in the 13th century (which seems to be the closest part in our time to the Witcher).

Weaponery, architecture, ship, armours ect ... suggest more late XV th / first half XVI th century, less fire arms, even strangly gunpowder is know for fireworks like in far east at this time.

Witcher world is not very innovite in some way. Time of men arrive, monsters and magic are relic of the past ... Tolkien Lotr cycle, Moorcock Elric (for exemple), knights of the round table in some extend. It s a boring classic.
No surprise witchers are male and magic users females, there is a bit lack of imagination here.

[Bite]

I find it odd to talk about Witchers as another "race". In TW2 it is esablished that a Witcher is simply an uber evolved human, who's evolution was forced via genetic mutation.

As it's said before though, the process isn't nice, as far as the Wolf school is concerned, they simply stopped recruiting long ago. Other schools may have different stories, but we also know that the Serpent school was in a dire situation since it's last members had to seek the Emperor's help in order to rebuild their school (Which seems to have failed, based on the fact that Emhyr betrays Letho in TW3).

All in all, Witchers aren't welcome anywhere, they're looked down like monsters without souls or even emotions, common folk despise them, and being a Witcher is overall a miserable life. Yes, they are very helpful, but also very miserable.

[Rafael Freeman]

In the game Lambert makes some interesting points about kids becoming Witchers …

I'm assuming that everybody who is this far in the thread isn't too concerned with possible spoilers for the books and the games so here goes:

Most potential Witchers die as children, the survivors are traumatized because they have seen their comrades die, the survivors are sterile, Witchers are unpopular among the population because they're considered to be freaks, kings fear powerful factions, be it mages or Witchers.

[Bite]

rafaelherschel eredeti hozzászólása:

Most potential Witchers die as children, the survivors are traumatized because they have seen their comrades die, the survivors are sterile, Witchers are unpopular among the population because they're considered to be freaks, kings fear powerful factions, be it mages or Witchers.

For the record, they don't hate Witchers as much (if at all) because they're famous for being Neutral in politics, usually if any monarch hires a Witcher for a contract, he should count with the fact that the witcher will not get involved in anything else (This obviously doesn't come out as true all the time, Geralt specially is always messed up in politics, but the notion that witchers are neutral makes them not be as hated by monarchs as mages for exampl).

[Gritsunorak]

BuzzardBee eredeti hozzászólása:

♥♥♥♥ Mountain eredeti hozzászólása:

So we're not regarding guerilla fighters as soldiers then? What about Ves?

Ves is one in a 1000. Cmon, its a world where women are called wenches, slapped around, ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ around and all that, there is no denying that. Roche pretty much said he took her out of the pity because she was some elf's plaything. Also, we are talking about children, who need to undergo strong physical training and harsh conditions at the young age, as well as mutations. I think its logical to think that a young girl has little chances surviving that.

Also you said that they don't choose girls because of the "infertility factor". I am pretty sure the people who created witchers don't really care that a girl is gonna be turned infertile, while she is being made into a killing machine.

And before you bring scoia'tael and she-elves as soldiers, they are freedom fighters. Freedom fighters usually take whoever they can (as long as they are for the cause). And yes, there are other examples of women soldiers/warriors in the books, but are rare, and lets be honest, are more of the diversity for the cast of characters (both for books and for games).

In the books, I think there is a moment where Witchers wanted to give Ciri some hormones to make her more of a man, but Triss stopped that. So yeh, it does come down to the basic thinking of "women weak, men strong".

[Ralph]

hurepoix eredeti hozzászólása:

My opinion is just CDPR perhaps dont know what to do for a '' witcher 4'' same era some years / decades later, Geralt PC or NPC as instructor, or restart a new Saga far in past. At least it seems there is open options in witcher 3. Geralt know how to make the mixture at least.

Dude, I would love a Witcher game set at an earlier time where you maybe follow a young witcher through his training, and then it opens up to a world with more monsters and less war so you can actually do mostly what witchers do best.
Maybe we could even get to see more than one school. And CDPR wouldn't even have to use some one elses stories, they could make something new (-ish, it's still the same world after all) THINK OF THE POTENTIAL!!!

[hurepoix]

Bite eredeti hozzászólása:

I find it odd to talk about Witchers as another "race".

Because subject was infertility when I spoke about that, Race is the adequate word I think. Mutant is an euphemism, like if you say human are mutant from the primate family. What I said here, is as long no female witcher ever existed it s probably not possible to be completly affirmative about witcher infertility. It can be know for sure if reproduction in the same group/race is not possible. Here we only know sitcher cant produce hybrids.
I can however that speak about race is sensible since the WWII.
Political allusion in witcher about this is anyway rather abvious in Novigrad, that is not really a surprise for who know how Poland suffered last WW. But I disgress a bit here.

[Master Cheeks]

BuzzardBee eredeti hozzászólása:

♥♥♥♥ Mountain eredeti hozzászólása:

So we're not regarding guerilla fighters as soldiers then? What about Ves?

Well, a guerilla fighter isn't a soldier by definition, no? If you mean pre-Witcher 3 when the Blue Stripes were a real contingency loyal to the crown, then fair enough. But that's still kind of lousy a example, since she's literally the only example of a female fighting as a soldier.

[Bite]

hurepoix eredeti hozzászólása:

Bite eredeti hozzászólása:

I find it odd to talk about Witchers as another "race".

Because subject was infertility when I spoke about that, Race is the adequate word I think. Mutant is an euphemism, like if you say human are mutant from the primate family. What I said here, is as long no female witcher ever existed it s probably not possible to be completly affirmative about witcher infertility. It can be know for sure if reproduction in the same group/race is not possible. Here we only know sitcher cant produce hybrids.
I can however that speak about race is sensible since the WWII.
Political allusion in witcher about this is anyway rather abvious in Novigrad, that is not really a surprise for who know how Poland suffered last WW. But I disgress a bit here.

I didn't mean that as a sensible topic, but again, TW2 pretty clearly established that Witchers are regular humans that were forcefully genetically mutated to force evlution. As such, they are evolved humans, and thus, in theory, they should be more of another species (again, in our theory), not race per se. And no, female witchers would still be infertile, the grasses pretty much cook you up on the inside, same thing that happens with sorceresses.

To be more clear, it's not like they stop being human, it's not like they turn into a whole different species (from the viewpoint of evolution as we know it, they could, but on a more real, concrete level, they don't, they don't exactly evolve in the same terms we know evolution to work anyway), they're still human at a genetic level, they would be able to have children with any woman out there if not for the damage the grasses do to them. Their infertility is a result of the damage done, not a change in genetics as such.

P.S. In a way, I guess one could think about this infertility issue much in the way they portray Big Boss in the Metal Gear Solid series, he's gone through so much trauma that he 1) became the perfect soldier. 2) became sterile too.

[Blast (AKA LostAmI)]

Lets start with the schools.
Bear, Based in skelliga, there school is confirmed to be extinct.
Cats, few remain (no reliable numbers) but most are assassins and killers for hire.
Viper, We all know what state there in.
Griffin. They are the only school with enough lack of details to suggest they may still be operating and producing witchers, if so they are doing so quietly as none are ever seem and only One member is ever mentioned in any witcher content thus far.

Now I agree, with the ever growing nature of man witchers have become far less important.
But I argue that the... ooh ya, SPOILER INCOMING

That the end of the witcher three shows Ciri making sure the White Frost is stopped resulted in a MASSIVE "import" if you will of fresh nasty monsters. Including but not limited to frost gients (you see several of them during the end of the game), which garalt had just killed the last known living one anywhere (at least in the known and explored world by the kingdoms of this continental area) This means that even with the growing nature of man, that there has been a massive influx of large, old (because Im assuming there original world allows this), and powerful monsters, some of which had long since been wiped from the face of the planet are now back at full strength, I can only assume that means many horrible monsters even the witchers thought were myths after so many ages of being extinct are now very very real again. In short, the need for witchers just went up ten fold if not more. I could also assume dragons are also going to be more common again, and seeing as many of the strongest monsters must have been the first to be wiped out by mages, sorceresses, and early witchers, then we can also conjecture that without those stated above that humanity would not be able to spread like they did, that some monsters are just to powerful for humans to handle even in there current state, and thus with this new covergance event has now made witcher not just useful again but perhaps even needed. Time will tell, as there are no plans to make a new witcher game any time soon.. =(

Ya I know big black spoiler tag, I rant, I know.
But my argument stands, and I stand by it, there is need for witchers and that is that in my opinion.

PS: NECROOOOOO!!

[Bite]

Blast eredeti hozzászólása:

That the end of the witcher three shows Ciri making sure the White Frost is stopped resulted in a MASSIVE "import" if you will of fresh nasty monsters. Including but not limited to frost gients (you see several of them during the end of the game), which garalt had just killed the last known living one anywhere (at least in the known and explored world by the kingdoms of this continental area) This means that even with the growing nature of man, that there has been a massive influx of large, old (because Im assuming there original world allows this), and powerful monsters, some of which had long since been wiped from the face of the planet are now back at full strength, I can only assume that means many horrible monsters even the witchers thought were myths after so many ages of being extinct are now very very real again. In short, the need for witchers just went up ten fold if not more. I could also assume dragons are also going to be more common again, and seeing as many of the strongest monsters must have been the first to be wiped out by mages, sorceresses, and early witchers, then we can also conjecture that without those stated above that humanity would not be able to spread like they did, that some monsters are just to powerful for humans to handle even in there current state, and thus with this new covergance event has now made witcher not just useful again but perhaps even needed. Time will tell, as there are no plans to make a new witcher game any time soon.. =(

Just want to point out that only happens in the small area of Skellige you're in. You only see the start of a conjuction, not the actual thing and it doesn't happen anywhere else in the world. There wasn't a "massive" flux of monsters (although naturally some did make it through).