The Alchemy Debate

[Dio]

So a lot of people are saying that alchemy sucks in this game. I disagree. I can see flaws (such as having to go into the inventory if you want to switch out potions, you should be able to have at least 3 or 4 ready in your quickslots imo) but it seems that a lot of you guys just talk out of your ass, to be quite frank.

So here's a defense speech in favor of alchemy. Note that i'm not saying that the system is perfect, i'm just saying that it is a very powerful skill tree and that alchemy works way better than in the old games, in practice if not in theory.

As I see it, there are two groups of critics:

1. "It's not like in the old games"

This is a small group and I hope someone makes a mod so you guys can just shut up. Alchemy was horrible in the old games and required more effort than it was worth. In W3 you still need to track down lots of ingredients for the higher tier oils and potions (and especially decoctions), a lot of them being rare. I like this system more than just running around in the forest farming stuff for years. W3 actually lets you use your bombs and potions without fear of them running out or feel that you might need them later on for some boss. This way you can just focus on the battle at hand, and you still get the herbalist feel when tracking down the mats you need for new/upgraded potions.

But this is a matter of opinion and I can still understand you guys. I don't feel that it's immersion breaking to refill everything with alcohol, it is a game after all and it's better than having to restock on mats for hours on end. It's a 100-200 hours game to start with, it doesn't need any filler.

However, there's group:

2. "Alchemy tree sucks, blade skills are much better, blade oils are useless"

First of all, that's a matter of playstyle. While green skills might not seem as much, the upgraded skills are probably some of the most powerful ones in the end. Five extra bombs per refill/bomb type? These bombs split into fragments that then explode? Thousands of extra vitality? Unlimited use of blade oils that give you 100% crit bonus, 25%+ chance of poisoning and damage resistance? The ability to use more potions than you can handle and multiple decoctions at once?

If you play on Death March (which is the only real difficulty if you want to use the game mechanics to the fullest and not just slash everything with a sword) you'll need more than your sword skills to help you. Signs are very powerful too, but I feel that alchemy might come out on top the more you invest in it and prepare yourself.

In this way, alchemy works better than in the old games, because the potions and skills are actually useful. If you are prepared with concoctions and oils and bombs and skills you'll have a huge advantage. In the older games there were like three distinct and useful potions, the others were just filler. You had to go out of your way to use alchemy in those games. In W3, alchemy is handy even unupgraded (moon dust and that freezing bomb makes my life so much easier) and freaking devastating when upgraded.

There. Next time someone talks ♥♥♥♥ about alchemy just make them read this. Please write your opinions on alchemy in the comments, don't be afraid to start a flame war.

[OuchThatHurt]

I got 100 Alcohol so i can brew 800 potions and 800 bombs from it makes sense right?

0/4 on 2 bomb and2 potion slots but 1 alcohol = full resupply so thats 16 items for 1 item 0.o

[Dio]

Originally posted by VikingDream - OuchThatHurt:

I got 100 Alcohol so i can brew 800 potions and 800 bombs from it makes sense right?

0/4 on 2 bomb and2 potion slots but 1 alcohol = full resupply so thats 16 items for 1 item 0.o

Yup. CD Projekt got a lot of criticism for how inconvenient and bothersome alchemy were and how just a small percentage were using them in the old games, so they made it super accessible. I can see how this is a problem with some guys, but i'd rather have an alchemy system that is easy and useful rather than tedious and pointless, like in the other games.

But as i said, that's just opinions. I'm sure the world of warcraft crowd will get a mod where they will have to walk around picking flowers for hours on end, we'll just have to wait for them to release the modkit.

[Doc Horriday]

The one thing that irks me is the lack of "slots" for your active potions. As you said it gets irritating to go into the inventory and ♥♥♥♥ about trying to find potions (for gods sake CDPR, give us a seperate potions/oils tab)
Anybody who thinks alchemy is rubbish is probably not playing on higher difficulties, that skill that activates a second potion for free is border line OP, absolutley walked the last part of the game because of it. Blade oils FTW by the way.

[Dave1029]

You can drink potions from the inventory screen even if you're in combat. That is not the case with food.

[Trance]

Im playing on the hardest difficulty and besides the Healing potions and Cat i hardly use any other pots.
It is just too time consuming and annoying to find the right potions in your inventory during combat. I only keep Food and the Healpot on my quickslots.
Same for bombs. Im 35 hours in the game and NEVER used a single bomb in combat, only for Monster Nests. They do so little damage it's just not worth it. I'd rather have Traps than Bombs so i can prepare them for a bossfight maybe.

There are some very good potions in the game but just far too many.
The Alchemy System needs a overhaul. Simplify it and cut down the numbers of potions to maybe 10 max and give Blade Oils more Charges. The 20 Charges don't even last for one pack of Drowners on the hardest difficulty.

[Locomotive]

I want moar slots to use different potions. I detest going into the menu every single time. Anyone have any idea what other items go in to the pocket slot? So far I only found the torch

[Dave1029]

Also, if you invest in the skill that heals 25% for every potion dose drank, then every potion in the game is a healing potion. So say you have 7 enhanced potions + the 2 you have quickslotted (one of which being a swallow potion)... Every Alcohest will fill your health bar completely 12-15 times and give you anywhere from 10-80 bombs. I'd say 30 points in Alchemy turns you into being almost invincible. This, coupled with combat and the synergy perk, will give you a +120% attack bonus. I don't have a single point in signs. Because I don't need any upgraded form of them.

[Dave1029]

Originally posted by Locomotive:

I want moar slots to use different potions. I detest going into the menu every single time. Anyone have any idea what other items go in to the pocket slot? So far I only found the torch

Magic lamp but I didn't know the Torch could go there. Will have to add that.

[Dave1029]

Originally posted by Trance:

Im playing on the hardest difficulty and besides the Healing potions and Cat i hardly use any other pots.
It is just too time consuming and annoying to find the right potions in your inventory during combat. I only keep Food and the Healpot on my quickslots.
Same for bombs. Im 35 hours in the game and NEVER used a single bomb in combat, only for Monster Nests. They do so little damage it's just not worth it. I'd rather have Traps than Bombs so i can prepare them for a bossfight maybe.

There are some very good potions in the game but just far too many.
The Alchemy System needs a overhaul. Simplify it and cut down the numbers of potions to maybe 10 max and give Blade Oils more Charges. The 20 Charges don't even last for one pack of Drowners on the hardest difficulty.

All of these are valid points if you don't invest in the Alchemy Tree. The tree addresses all of those problems.

Using potions: well all of them become healing potions so even ones you don't care about the effect... still heal 25% of your health a dose.

Bombs: Perk adds 5 to your storage, and cluster bombs adds damage. One grapeshot @ 600 damage will splinter into 6 that do the same damage. On an average sized enemy, about 3 of those 6 will hit the target you're aiming at doing 1800 damage. I used a single grapeshot and killed an entire bandit camp of 10 men.

[Dio]

Originally posted by Trance:

Im playing on the hardest difficulty and besides the Healing potions and Cat i hardly use any other pots.
It is just too time consuming and annoying to find the right potions in your inventory during combat. I only keep Food and the Healpot on my quickslots.
Same for bombs. Im 35 hours in the game and NEVER used a single bomb in combat, only for Monster Nests. They do so little damage it's just not worth it. I'd rather have Traps than Bombs so i can prepare them for a bossfight maybe.

There are some very good potions in the game but just far too many.
The Alchemy System needs a overhaul. Simplify it and cut down the numbers of potions to maybe 10 max and give Blade Oils more Charges. The 20 Charges don't even last for one pack of Drowners on the hardest difficulty.

You should try out some bombs, they are really great for crowds such as drowners, even without putting points in alchemy. Enhanced blade oils give you more charges btw, just as enhanced bombs and potions give you more. Enhanced blade oils also add 25% damage instead of 10, which is quite a good buff. Just as good as a fully upgraded first skill in the swordplay tree, but with no investment on your part other than finding the materials.

Alchemy is a great spice even if you don't have any points in the tree. Freezing bomb is also very awesome.

[avil]

I like to use alchemy, but it's really annoying to search them (sorting mechanics, for some reason, always changes their placement, and there is so many of them).
It's much better than in W2, really (because you CAN use potions out of meditation). Extra damage from poison for oils, extra effects. And with higher level you can increase charges (and effective time just passively with every level in branch).
Bombs, tho. They're useless. Why you even need to bother about using some consumable that have a ridiculous wind up time and does way less damage then one fast hit from a sword without any really helpful effect?

[Dave1029]

Originally posted by avil:

I like to use alchemy, but it's really annoying to search them (sorting mechanics, for some reason, always changes their placement, and there is so many of them).
It's much better than in W2, really (because you CAN use potions out of meditation). Extra damage from poison for oils, extra effects. And with higher level you can increase charges (and effective time just passively with every level in branch).
Bombs, tho. They're useless. Why you even need to bother about using some consumable that have a ridiculous wind up time and does way less damage then one fast hit from a sword without any really helpful effect?

There's a mission where you have to fight 3 trolls at the same time. Grapeshot saw to their death after failed attempts at trying to fight them with a sword. I've also cleared an entire bandit camp with one grapeshot before too.

[Dio]

Originally posted by avil:

I like to use alchemy, but it's really annoying to search them (sorting mechanics, for some reason, always changes their placement, and there is so many of them).
It's much better than in W2, really (because you CAN use potions out of meditation). Extra damage from poison for oils, extra effects. And with higher level you can increase charges (and effective time just passively with every level in branch).
Bombs, tho. They're useless. Why you even need to bother about using some consumable that have a ridiculous wind up time and does way less damage then one fast hit from a sword without any really helpful effect?

Bombs also refill each time you meditate. You can quickthrow them by pressing the button once. I use them for control, like freezing guys or killing archers.

Inventory management is the biggest problem with alchemy right now. We need more potion slots and a better way to sort your potions and oils.

[Garto]

The problem with it, is that it breaks immersion. You're supposed to be a witcher, a superhuman with experience and training to kill monsters, and before killing monsters, you have to prepare them. However, all your equipment is free once its brewed once and bombs are replenished with alcohol.

Not to mention, if alcohol is rare, and you're needed to buy it from the merchant, then I can probably accept that, but it costs 1 bottle for ALL potions/bombs and the world is littered with alcohols.

And to add to that misery is that there is no goldsink at all. Aren't witcher's poor? Not mine. I have about 30k right now with nothing to spend on. Maybe if my tools cost money... but nope.

[Dave1029]

Originally posted by Garto - 運命の火の玉:

The problem with it, is that it breaks immersion. You're supposed to be a witcher, a superhuman with experience and training to kill monsters, and before killing monsters, you have to prepare them. However, all your equipment is free once its brewed once and bombs are replenished with alcohol.

Not to mention, if alcohol is rare, and you're needed to buy it from the merchant, then I can probably accept that, but it costs 1 bottle for ALL potions/bombs and the world is littered with alcohols.

And to add to that misery is that there is no goldsink at all. Aren't witcher's poor? Not mine. I have about 30k right now with nothing to spend on. Maybe if my tools cost money... but nope.

I think they meant for repair costs to be the money sink. Regardless, I wish they let you upgrade Kaer Morhen. Now that would have been cool.