Worth it for self-imposed permadeath play?

[DirectOrder]

I haven't purchased yet, but I'm planning on playing with a self-imposed permadeath rule. I do this with a lot of games (even modding some to automatically delete my save files when I die), and it turns out better than you would think in most games. And, yes, I'm a masochist :)

Is there any glaring reason this would simply not work for this game? I know it has multiple difficulty settings, which is a plus. I'll probably start out on the lowest difficulty and work my way up if it is too easy.

But is there anything else in this game that would make this play-style impossible (or just not worth it)? Things like:

1) Quick time events that instantly kill you if failed
2) Long unskippable cut scenes that would discourage repeat play-throughs
3) The first 4 hours are basically a tutorial that you have to play through before you get to the "real" game
4) Trial and error situations where you have to reload over and over again to figure out the correct path through a room with invisible traps

I don't just mean these four specific things...let me know of anything you can think of.

And yes - I DO realize this game is NOT designed to be played this way. But most games aren't and I have a blast playing like this anyway. But there are certain games that it just simply doesn't work with for one reason or another. Let me know if there's anything that would stop me in my tracks, even on the lowest difficulty setting.

Thanks for any contributors to the discussion!

[Tumas Altaawus]

2 and 3 definitely apply. There's also cheap death moments. Though I'm playing on the hardest difficulty, so maybe the cheap death moments aren't so bad on easy.

[HoloByteus]

LOL, the controls in this game is just a disaster. To impose permadeath is cruel and unusual punishment IMHO.

[DirectOrder]

Escrito originalmente por CrystalFire:

If you find/make a mod for this, please let me know. You mentioned you use something, a program or something?, to autodelete your save-files. I'd love to know more.

Sure, I'll let you know when I get it set up. I use AutoHotKey to constantly scan the screen for the "game over" screen on death (so it needs to be customized for each game), and when it sees it, the script permanently and imeadiately deletes all the files in the save directory. One of my favorite experiments was doing this with Serious Sam! If you thought the battles were heart-pounding when you could just reload if you died, this will give you a heart attack! ;)

It's also nice to hear that I won't be running into a lot of stupid/bs deaths!

Escrito originalmente por CommanderCorgi:

bandits can still get you with their bows even though you're in cover (large tree for example)
avoid horses that dont belong to you (seriously walk up in front of it, you're ♥♥♥♥♥♥. instant death if he runs into you)
fall damage is really stupid so avoid jumping..
quen and axii are your friend.

Thanks for these tips - especially the one about the instant horse deaths. Instant unpredictable deaths are the bane of this type of playthrough.

[Don Cool]

Thats why I gave up on Tomb Raider, the game simply couldn´t be played Ironman mode, too many deaths. I tried to endure them but in the end it all felt meaningless.

[Fr3nzy]

Escrito originalmente por CrystalFire:

Escrito originalmente por Fr3nzy:

In fact there are perma-death difficulty in this Witcher. Buy you need to complete the game at least once (dunno on which difficulty tho - f.e. i'm playing on Death March! and i hope that perma-death difficulty will unlock afterwards).

I thought this true as well, but I just finished the game today and there's no such thing; it was cancelled.

Damn it!

[hamsterofdeath]

the game is designed in a way that forces you to find out how to beat each type of enemy in which type of environment. for example, it look me a few deaths to find an efficient way to fight werewolves, and now i can beat single ones without even getting hit at all.
if you use the wrong strategy or fighting style, you are very likely to die.
all your permadeath rule will bring you is endless repetition of a large portion of the game instead of repeating a small part thanks to saves.

[luix_luix]

Escrito originalmente por Denigrate:

I was starting to get concerned about everybody mentioning fall damage (and I've heard it mentioned elsewhere too). It sound like it won't be too much of a problem unless I get careless though, right? It's not like I'm going to be dying every two minutes from from some 2 foot ledge I didn't even notice, right?

Yes, you won't be having much trouble with fall damage, just be always aware of your surroundings and don't get careless. To be honest, on my 2nd playthrough I died from it because I was careless... it was so obvious I could slip/fall because of the roof angle... but I got greedy (I wanted to reach a barrel with loot on the other side... probably just junk and minor materials).

Escrito originalmente por Denigrate:

Thanks for discussing the difficulty levels too. I figured I'd start out on the lowest difficulty, but from what you are saying, it might be a bit too easy. Would you suggest I start out on Normal? I hate not playing with a Permadeath rule, so I want to start out on a reasonable difficulty, and I love a challenge (but I'd rather err on the side of "too easy" for my first attempt.)

To be honest, Normal is quite difficult if you are not really familiar to the combat and general game mechanics. In my first playthorugh (Normal) I got completely owned by a couple "minor" enemies because of it. If you really want your first playthrough to be a long one I would recommend going on easy and once you feel you can turn it up go to normal or more (you can adjust difficulty anytime, I believe even in the middle of a fight). I started on Normal because generally my first playthorugh is kind of a "test" one, where I go into the game a couple hours to get the basics and usually die a stupid death or if I don't I restart anyways to make a "clean" playthrough (OCD? lol).

Escrito originalmente por Denigrate:

Thanks for your other tips as well. I'll be sure to keep them in mind. Is there anything you feel I could do (or avoid doing) to make things easier on myself in a permadeath playthrough? Anything you wish you had known at the start? I guess being very cautious with each fight, as you mentioned...

Well, besides the ones I mentioned above, I think the best fighting tip I can give you right now is the following.

You mainly have 3 defense moves: parry with your sword, sidestep dodge and dodge roll. It is very important knowing when to use each of them and combine them properly, but a good general tip/guideline I can give you is use them mainly for these scenarios:

Parry: use it as your main defense move against human enemies. Parrying is very effective against swords. Of course combine them with a little sidestep dodge and from time to time with a dodge roll when you get surrounded or need a little distance.

Sidestep Dodge: use it as your main defense move against non-human/beast/monster enemies that are human sized or similar (i.e. wolves, drowners, ghouls, nekkers, wraiths, etc...), then combine it with a little dodge roll to manage your distance or heavy attacks. Parry will help you cover some of the hits that you couldn't dodge or roll in time, but I wouldn't advise trying to parry all monsters/beasts moves because they usually have attack moves that surpass your parry and deal damage. Use parry as last line of defense against these enemies. In short, always keep your parry guard up, but aim to defend yourself by sidestepping and rolling first.

Dodge roll: Rolling consumes stamina, which is also used to cast signs/spells so try not to spam the roll move unless necessary. Use it as your main defense move against non-human/beast/monster enemies that are huge (griffin, werewolf, bears, etc.). Because of their size their attacks usually have a big area of effect, so in most cases sidestepping won't be enough to get out of the way. Sidestep will help you with only some minor attacks, so use it as a secondary defense move. Parry is almost useless against this kind of enemies, but same as above, use it as last line of defense and keep your guard up.

Also, don't be afraid of using your potions, decoctions and bombs - go all in against your opponents. Once you have used one potion, decoction or one bomb, refilling them will cost the same whether you just used one or used them all.

Escrito originalmente por Denigrate:

Finally, do you ever play on PC? One of my favorite things to do is to write scripts which delete my saves for me on death, basically adding a full-fledged permadeath option to any game whether it comes with one or not. You can't beat it! (litterally sometimes lol)

Yes I do have a gaming computer, but it is a little outdated so I can't play many of the newest games. I see we both have some games in common, maybe we can someday try a permadeath Borderlands 2 playthorugh or something :)

The delete-file permadeath script would be great! Although I have a very strong will and I always delete my files when I die, having a script would make it feel more like a real game mechanic (instead of a manual self-imposed rule).

[Mr. Doctor]

You are not alone, I do self imposed permadeath for most games I play, but like you said they don't all work. It can be heartbreaking sometimes. I have been literally on my knees after dying after 20 hours with one game, the breath literally gets sucked out of you when you die, albet you get over it soon after.

But in return, every moment is much more exciting when you have something to lose. And the further you get into the game, the more hours you play, the more investment you have, the more exciting and exhilerating it is after surviving a life or death encounter.

It makes you connect with your character more, and really tests your morals; it is easy to be the good guy if you have little to lose, but if you have hours of your life you will never get back, your choices become much more selfish and you understand much more why people do awful things just to survive.

But be warned, once you start playing games this way you may never go back to how you used to play. It's just not the same excitement.

[DirectOrder]

Escrito originalmente por God:

You are not alone, I do self imposed permadeath for most games I play, but like you said they don't all work. It can be heartbreaking sometimes. I have been literally on my knees after dying after 20 hours with one game, the breath literally gets sucked out of you when you die, albet you get over it soon after.

But in return, every moment is much more exciting when you have something to lose. And the further you get into the game, the more hours you play, the more investment you have, the more exciting and exhilerating it is after surviving a life or death encounter.

It makes you connect with your character more, and really tests your morals; it is easy to be the good guy if you have little to lose, but if you have hours of your life you will never get back, your choices become much more selfish and you understand much more why people do awful things just to survive.

But be warned, once you start playing games this way you may never go back to how you used to play. It's just not the same excitement.

Yep this is exactly how I feel. Especially the part about never being able to go back. I can no longer find any fun or satisfaction in winning if there's no possible way to lose. If a game does not have a true fail state, I simply cannot play it. Plus it's just so much more exciting anyway.

It's a shame that 75% of games do not have a true fail state. Where's the fun in winning a game you can't lose?

[GipseyDanger ( >ω<)っ ♡]

1. Definately play it on easy lol.

2. Watch out for cliffs/fall deaths (IMO just impose a rule that any fall deaths dont count) There should be some mods out there that reduce the fall damage or something like that - it really is unfair.

3. Use the trap Sign on wraith/spectre creatures (like banshee type wailing witch ghost things), other wise they will make short work of you. Or just avoid them all together, they are easily some of the deadliest enemies.

4. You may want to avoid MOST of the Witcher sidequests where you hunt down specific monsters, at least until you've outleveled them signficantly and have encountered the species of monster elsewhere, as all 15-20ish of the quests are essentially bossfights.

5. Consider using a Sign based build for primarily ranged combat (and the appropriate witcher school armor to boost the sign intensity), Aard for knockdowns and easy finishing stab move/crowd control, as well as Igni for bursts of damage (particularly against human enemies) and of course abuse the hell out of Quen to shield yourself from damage. Avoid getting surrounded.

6. Approach fights tactically, try and find natural choke points.

7. Enemies do leash, so don't be afraid to run.

8. It's easy to pickup a random sidequest that sends you into a dangerous zone that you didn't know was stupid high level, so consult maps like this for general level purposes http://www.gry-online.pl/galeria/mapy/76857071_426.jpg

9. Always overprepare in terms of your decoctions (they are like potions that last a long time). COnsider points in Frenzy and Acquired tolerance. :)

Good luck!

[Mr. Doctor]

Escrito originalmente por Denigrate:

Escrito originalmente por God:

You are not alone, I do self imposed permadeath for most games I play, but like you said they don't all work. It can be heartbreaking sometimes. I have been literally on my knees after dying after 20 hours with one game, the breath literally gets sucked out of you when you die, albet you get over it soon after.

But in return, every moment is much more exciting when you have something to lose. And the further you get into the game, the more hours you play, the more investment you have, the more exciting and exhilerating it is after surviving a life or death encounter.

It makes you connect with your character more, and really tests your morals; it is easy to be the good guy if you have little to lose, but if you have hours of your life you will never get back, your choices become much more selfish and you understand much more why people do awful things just to survive.

But be warned, once you start playing games this way you may never go back to how you used to play. It's just not the same excitement.

Yep this is exactly how I feel. Especially the part about never being able to go back. I can no longer find any fun or satisfaction in winning if there's no possible way to lose. If a game does not have a true fail state, I simply cannot play it. Plus it's just so much more exciting anyway.

It's a shame that 75% of games do not have a true fail state. Where's the fun in winning a game you can't lose?

Yes, I only wish more multiplayer team games were like this. The best moments in Left for Dead occur in the last level where not everyone survives. The lengths people go, or don't go, for their teamates always amazes me when their skin is on the line.