Question marks - secrets...WHY!!!

[Kraken]

Why did the devs decide to make players aware of where secrets are by putting a question mark over them??? The whole point of a secret is so that it's a secret. This is really spoiling the "exploration" for me...everything is already explored for me. Why?

What's the point of exploring blank map area? Or, are there more secrets that don't have a question mark on them? Please tell me that is so!

[Kalil]

Originally posted by LithiumFox:

Did ANYONE NOT NOTICE the EIGHT ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ TIMES
<snip>

This man talks sense, quick, everyone ignore him :)

[Puretone]

This goes to prove unequivocally that you just can't win.

Create a huge world in which most of your fun stuff (read: immensely creative, time-consuming, world-integrating effort) is hidden and you'll get players dropping out because they haven't the time or inclination to explore every inch of a vast terrain on the off chance they might come across something interesting. (Put aside the possibility that people might need to take a break from the game and lose track of what they were actually doing.)

Alternatively, give them the option to highlight quests by voluntarily requesting access to them on public notice boards and they'll complain that details of these have now been revealed. Then again, if such details were hidden and players were left clueless as to where to start, there would be uproar and widespread disengagement. Perhaps a written (or verbal, but easily forgotten) hint would be the answer? (Hmm, a question mark intruded there. Never mind.)

Another idea? (Drat, there it is again.) Maybe the simplest solution to satisfy an infinite variety of preferences would be to create an option to turn off the hint system, if that is the way you would like to play. Nope. Let's face it, that would be like giving players the option of turning down combat difficulty when, naturally, any decent, non-casual gamer would want it to be at the highest challenge possible!

Conclusion: don't try to make a game that is accessible to a wide audience. (I know, I know. Computer games are supposed to be interactive and adaptable but, hell, only one gaming demographic really counts - the 'non-casual'. It's so obvious!)

[Mord]

Originally posted by Kraken:

Originally posted by Malachi:

^ I agree, I like them. I'd rather not waste countless hours scouring the lands trying to find that last hidden quest. Or not being able to tell if I missed one.

Casual gamer.

Elitist nob.

[LithiumFox]

Originally posted by Puretone:

This goes to prove unequivocally that you just can't win.

Create a huge world in which most of your fun stuff (read: immensely creative, time-consuming, world-integrating effort) is hidden and you'll get players dropping out because they haven't the time or inclination to explore every inch of a vast terrain on the off chance they might come across something interesting. (Put aside the possibility that people might need to take a break from the game and lose track of what they were actually doing.)

Alternatively, give them the option to highlight quests by voluntarily requesting access to them on public notice boards and they'll complain that details of these have now been revealed. Then again, if such details were hidden and players were left clueless as to where to start, there would be uproar and widespread disengagement. Perhaps a written (or verbal, but easily forgotten) hint would be the answer? (Hmm, a question mark intruded there. Never mind.)

Another idea? (Drat, there it is again.) Maybe the simplest solution to satisfy an infinite variety of preferences would be to create an option to turn off the hint system, if that is the way you would like to play. Nope. Let's face it, that would be like giving players the option of turning down combat difficulty when, naturally, any decent, non-casual gamer would want it to be at the highest challenge possible!

Conclusion: don't try to make a game that is accessible to a wide audience. (I know, I know. Computer games are supposed to be interactive and adaptable but, hell, only one gaming demographic really counts - the 'non-casual'. It's so obvious!)

I actually like it in a way, though I'd prefer if they gave you a "rough area" like when you're doing the tracking/investigating quests. :)

[InstableMonster]

Originally posted by Kraken:

Why did the devs decide to make players aware of where secrets are by putting a question mark over them??? The whole point of a secret is so that it's a secret. This is really spoiling the "exploration" for me...everything is already explored for me. Why?

What's the point of exploring blank map area? Or, are there more secrets that don't have a question mark on them? Please tell me that is so!

you can turn them off if you dont like it, but they are points of interest you learn from notices boards, so it make sense that the people talking about something on a board said where it was, also don't ♥♥♥♥♥ about an option you can turn off it makes you look foolish

[Herb & Bea Ehltée]

Originally posted by Kraken:

I understand I can turn them off, by would you want to if the game makes them available? It's like not using a cheat sheet for a test. Everyone would use the cheat sheet, just like an open book test.

You said it was spoiling exploration for you. Then turn them off. This is kind of a have your cake and eat it too thing, as I read it.

[Rampion Rampage]

I have memory issues that actually makes exploration without help kind of near impossible as I'm not sure where I have or haven't been. The idea that Geralt can read a notice and get a general sense of where to go makes sense, since he isn't an idiot.

I also need subs for my hearing loss, those you can also turn on and off. So... Play how you want to play - turn ♥♥♥♥ off if you want. Options are there to make the game as accessible to as many people as possible. That includes (gasp) casual gamers (which I'm not, but I don't understand the hate for them), people with misc accessibility problems.

Dumbing down of games/gamers has more to do with things like obsession with graphics instead of content. (though honestly, there are games for that so people who want that kind of thing can have them... preference for beauty over brains is just that, a preference... as long as there are still games that can do both or priority for content, i don't care)

Douching up of gamers has to do with elitism over what is the 'correct' way to play, and wanting those standards to be met by everyone and so let's just not give people choices.

[Rampion Rampage]

Originally posted by CharlieBucket:

Originally posted by Kraken:

I understand I can turn them off, by would you want to if the game makes them available? It's like not using a cheat sheet for a test. Everyone would use the cheat sheet, just like an open book test.

You said it was spoiling exploration for you. Then turn them off. This is kind of a have your cake and eat it too thing, as I read it.

Yeah, the argument that the temptation is too strong is kind of weak... like the person who makes it.

[Xazur]

Yeh, a lot of the ? are point of interests like shrines and what not. But there are also areas that appear on the map when you are near them, I managed to find a few of the spots labeled on the minimap when I got close, but I had no idea how to enter since they were below the ground.

[Angry Nord-Grunge Syndicate]

Originally posted by Kraken:

I understand I can turn them off, by would you want to if the game makes them available? It's like not using a cheat sheet for a test. Everyone would use the cheat sheet, just like an open book test.

I agree PDX. Morrowind had true exploration...you can end up in a random dungeon and actually be excited about exploring it..

It's so ironic that what they claim to be a "sand-box" experience in such a large world, ends up being exactly the opposite.

A lot of adventure games have hint system and and of course you could always go and get walkthrough from internet, it's just a matter of self-control.

[Naani]

Originally posted by Kraken:

Originally posted by Malachi:

^ I agree, I like them. I'd rather not waste countless hours scouring the lands trying to find that last hidden quest. Or not being able to tell if I missed one.

Casual gamer.

you get paid to game?

[Neckraon]

The option concerning question marks is a problem because this option is active by default.
That would say the game is design to be played with the option enable !

Here is the true question : Are the developpers design their games to be a sandbox game where you travel and discovers secrets and other things by your own ? No. They design their games to be played without use your brain...No discover fealing !

Now if you put the option OFF, and play the game without those questions mark, does it transform the game to a truly sandbox game with discovers fealing ? Not really ! Because, when you have a quest, the description DOES NOT GIVE YOU HINTS to discovers the emplacement; most of the time (there are a few quests where you have informations).

So you can't really play without the questions mark, because you will encounters too much difficulty.

In a game like Fallout 3 or New vegas, there are tons of secrets without any signs, or hints, of any kind. But there are indications ONLY for cities, or camps, which are nearby the character, AND quests. So there still a true fealing for exploration the world and still easy to do the quest for casuals gamers.

In the witcher 3 EVERYTHING is show by a question mark ! Even the bandit camp where there is no quest link ! There is not tons of hide secrets like Fallout 3 and New Vegas !

[Mumbles]

Originally posted by PDX MM:

It is a trend that has been going on for many years now and that is the dumbing down of games. I might be forgetting a game but last one I remember that never held the players hand is Morrowind and I doubt a game like it will ever be made sadly.

Dont be obtuse ... why were there no fancy quest markers in Morrowind? Because they wanted you to really think about where to go? Not a chance - there were no quest markers simply because it was such lo-def garbage nothing was visible on the shoddy map. If they could have made it look less like vomit on a barroom floor - it would have had many more noticeable and helpful markers.

Was Morrowind great? Absolutely! Was it this pure holy grail of RPGs everyone has turned it into since? Not-even-close.

[Jac]

I had mine turned off whilst I was playing the main quests. I only turned them on after I had completed pretty much everything there was to do so I could grind some crowns. So it was after doing about 250 hours of in-game time that I turned them on to see that there were many places I had never visited.

I am in two minds, I hate hand-holding but then again it would have been a lot of grind to find all those spots myself.

[Snacktooth]

the new Zelda doesnt do it