Where is the lore that women can / can't be witchers?

[Morsk]

edit: I didn't expect the thread to keep going.

edit2: Omg 8 pages, just stop! I wanted 1-2 lore examples, and thought there might be 1 page of bickering, not this. If I wanted icons I would do a better job than this thread!

My understanding from Triss in Blood of Elves was NO ONE KNOWS what early witcher training does to girls, implying no one has done later training on girls at all, and no one knows if they can survive it or not. As a reader I though this was to create suspense over whether Ciri would be the first. Ciri being the first, eventually, seems normal storytelling to me.

This was mainly a question about the community. I knew why some people were saying there are already woman Witchers in School of the Cat: fanfiction and a tabletop RPG. But I didn't understand why other people were convinced of the opposite: not that woman witchers don't exist yet, but that they're impossible. I wanted to know where this came from.

[Stormbleidd]

Observing people cry over the fact they have to control Ciri for the next 3 games is hilarious. But if would be perfectly fine apparently if you could MaKe YoUr OwN wITcHeR.. who comes out of absolutely nowhere, with no lore, no backstory, nothing. Apparently that is better for the Witcher universe.

They set her up years ago. No one else fault that you all were unaware of it. Now gimme jesters because your offended by facts.

[fenlander]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Stormbleidd:

Observing people cry over the fact they have to control Ciri for the next 3 games is hilarious. But if would be perfectly fine apparently if you could MaKe YoUr OwN wITcHeR.. who comes out of absolutely nowhere, with no lore, no backstory, nothing. Apparently that is better for the Witcher universe.

They set her up years ago. No one else fault that you all were unaware of it. Now gimme jesters because your offended by facts.

I don't care about Ciri being the player character. I played Tomb Raider when it first came out on the PS1, no problems with me. I have played Mass Effect as female Shepard no problems.

You are gas-lighting the community and you know the reasons people don't want this but are not addressing them. Nor bringing a strong argument. Your comment is straw-man argument at best, or one based on ignorance of the world lore.

The main problem is not with Ciri, it is the fact she is now a Witcher, which is impossible in the world lore which is one of its foundations. Changing this to suit an political agenda is wrong and shows the writers are devoid of anything creativity, other than pushing their political agenda in a game/world that doesn't need it or shouldn't have it in.

[LtLost]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von fenlander:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von 1rsm:

I do not recall Ciri becoming sterile? Can you please post the passage from the book?

The passage is from the second book. It mentions how it pains Ciri in her ovaries and she doubles over Triss failed to mention what would happen. Which was to sterilise Ciri. If I can find it I will post the page number.

Page 196? There's nothing explicitly saying that's the case, and I think it's really up to interpretation. The 4th book has it's own passages in it that suggest fertility, which I really don't feel comfortable posting here. In fact, looking back, a lot of these books did not age well for current social morals, and I can see why quoted text is usually not readily posted here or anywhere else.

[Caz]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Titan Awaken:

So this is a statement that I’ve been hearing non-stop since the trailer dropped as if it’s some obvious, universal “the sky is blue” truth but funnily enough I have yet to see the official quote or source from Sapkowski’s books that explicitly, definitively and unambiguously confirms that “women cannot be Witchers”.

So please, won’t somebody, ANYBODY, do us a favor and quote the exact passage where Sapkowski writes that “women cannot be Witchers”?

Or is this just a hearsay myth that has been repeated so many times that it’s effectively accepted as the “obvious truth” without question akin to “breakfast is the most important meal of the day” and “sharks don’t get cancer”?

Sure. The part that says all females die in the trials. That’s called implication and is very common literary technique. Rather curious how it’s not being accepted here despite being accepted pretty much everywhere else. Almost like there’s some sort of agenda motivating the refusal to accept the lore…..

[Ogami]

None of the video games or the tv show or the animated movie and so on are "canon" and in "lore" with the books.
The author has said multiple times in the past that he does not consider anything that happens outside the books "canon", the video games are their own version of that world and characters so they can also do ( and have done multiple times) things that break the book lore. For example there are multiple characters who are dead in the books but alive in the games and vice versa. Characters have different background stories in the game or met earlier/later then in the books and so on.

Just see both of them as separate realities, book reality, games/show reality.
The author has made it clear that all he cares about the games/show is the money they bring him, thats it.

If people would be REALLY this concerned about the Witcher world "lore" they would reject all the games outright from the start.
But curiously it only NOW becomes a problem when there is a female main character in the story.
Hmmmmm.....

[Dork_Stalker_310]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Caz:

Sure. The part that says all females die in the trials.

And I'm sure you can quote that part, right?

[Dork_Stalker_310]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Ogami:

If people would be REALLY this concerned about the Witcher world "lore" they would reject all the games outright from the start.
But curiously it only NOW becomes a problem when there is a female main character in the story.
Hmmmmm.....

Nooo, you don't get it, Geralt returning from the dead is hecking based and lore-accurate.

[Caz]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Dork_Stalker_310:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Caz:

Sure. The part that says all females die in the trials.

And I'm sure you can quote that part, right?

Yes. The part that states all females die in the trials. What part of that was unclear? This is established lore from the books that multiple people have pointed out multiple times. If you want the exact book and page and paragraph and sentence, you’ll have to do that yourself or wait a while since I’m at work and don’t have the books in front of me. My recommendation would be to look it up yourself, tho, so you can learn more instead being handheld to the answer

[Ogami]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Caz:

Yes. The part that states all females die in the trials. What part of that was unclear? This is established lore from the books that multiple people have pointed out multiple times. If you want the exact book and page and paragraph and sentence, you’ll have to do that yourself or wait a while since I’m at work and don’t have the books in front of me. My recommendation would be to look it up yourself, tho, so you can learn more instead being handheld to the answer

There is no such part. It states that the sorceresses that created the witchers started experimenting with both boys and girls as test subjects and at the beginning they ALL died during the trial till they found a combination of herbs and ingredients that gave boys a 30% survival rate when they drank that elixr beforehand. The same herb combination did not work on girls so they abandoned the experiments on girls because they already had a working solution for male witchers.

Thats not " all females always die" its " they never continued to find the elixr combination that would work on girls".
Plus in this case with Ciri and her existing elderblood powers its very easy to have her survive the witcher trials without contradicting that.

[Hiphoptimus Rhyme]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Ogami:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Caz:

Yes. The part that states all females die in the trials. What part of that was unclear? This is established lore from the books that multiple people have pointed out multiple times. If you want the exact book and page and paragraph and sentence, you’ll have to do that yourself or wait a while since I’m at work and don’t have the books in front of me. My recommendation would be to look it up yourself, tho, so you can learn more instead being handheld to the answer

There is no such part. It states that the sorceresses that created the witchers started experimenting with both boys and girls as test subjects and at the beginning they ALL died during the trial till they found a combination of herbs and ingredients that gave boys a 30% survival rate when they drank that elixr beforehand. The same herb combination did not work on girls so they abandoned the experiments on girls because they already had a working solution for male witchers.

Thats not " all females always die" its " they never continued to find the elixr combination that would work on girls".
Plus in this case with Ciri and her existing elderblood powers its very easy to have her survive the witcher trials without contradicting that.

Why would Ciri go through the trouble of discovering the right combo and downgrading to a Witcher?

This doesn't make sense on its face dude.

[Delicia Suprema]

Can't we have limits anymore ? We don't need a male Lara Croft and we don't need a female Nathan Drake or Geralt for this matter.

[Ogami]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Hiphoptimus Rhyme:

Why would Ciri go through the trouble of discovering the right combo and downgrading to a Witcher?

This doesn't make sense on its face dude.

I said the most likely explanation will be that she survived because of her elderblood and does not need any special elixr.
And Ciri would do almost anything to become a real witcher, it was always her dream, its not about logic or "downgrading", its something she REALLY wanted because she always considered Geralt her real father and wanted to follow in his footsteps.

[Dork_Stalker_310]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Caz:

Yes. The part that states all females die in the trials. What part of that was unclear? This is established lore from the books that multiple people have pointed out multiple times. If you want the exact book and page and paragraph and sentence, you’ll have to do that yourself or wait a while since I’m at work and don’t have the books in front of me. My recommendation would be to look it up yourself, tho, so you can learn more instead being handheld to the answer

This is literally a non-answer, just like I expected. You know why? Because I've actually read the dialogue between Triss and Ciri in Blood of Elves - and not once Triss mentions that women can't handle mutations. She even thanks witchers for not putting Ciri through them, without mentioning that it would "literally kill her".

So I suggest you to work well, then come back home, pick up whatever book you are quoting and show me the quote - until that, I'm not going to "do research" for you, because you clearly are just parroting what you've heard online.

[Hiphoptimus Rhyme]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Ogami:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Hiphoptimus Rhyme:

Why would Ciri go through the trouble of discovering the right combo and downgrading to a Witcher?

This doesn't make sense on its face dude.

I said the most likely explanation will be that she survived because of her elderblood and does not need any special elixr.
And Ciri would do almost anything to become a real witcher, it was always her dream, its not about logic or "downgrading", its something she REALLY wanted because she always considered Geralt her real father and wanted to follow in his footsteps.

You must be on the writing staff

[Zeesha]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Ogami:

But curiously it only NOW becomes a problem when there is a female main character in the story.
Hmmmmm.....

I'm wondering if you are new to the Witcher 3 forums. There's an extraordinary amount of threads around here about game (Witcher 3) being unlore-ish with just Triss/Yen choices. They aren't even playable characters and it's all over the place in here. Another is Lambert's friend in the school of the cat. That quest line, because they were supposedly all killed, is sometimes raked and people wondered why it wasn't a bear instead or some such. There's more stuff or posts about it. Regarding just the subject of Triss, I think the Dev's just like red-heads. She's always around hehe. Nah, this is about book + game lore + why this direction?

There's lots they could of done if just female + witcher. The first witchers. You're a female, chose the trials and:

--You go off fighting. Thought sometimes you wonder if some fights were real or not
or
--You sometimes go off fighting and have weird black ground like fights.
or
--You to try free yourself. All the Witchers are mad crazy. They keep trying to hold you down. You're escaping and fighting Witchers, monsters, Mages, etc.

Endings:

1) You see yourself as you die. You never left the rack (choices mater)
2) You commit suicide but your outside (you did manage to escape)
3) You feel like you rule the world all it takes is more mage blood (you've become a monster)

Of course, someone would prolly tell me such a game is to dark even for the Witcher. But there were things they could of done to make a female witcher and it could of been very cool. :)

edit: typos