I really hope that CDPR does not make Ciri into a Mary Sue

[WolfHound]

One thing to note: I should have read the Discussion Rules. My Bad.

I already posted this earlier but it got wiped because it was too politically far right. This is a repost with the politics removed to the best of my knowledge. So please forgive me as I have never had post get wiped before, let alone for political reasons. I've always tried to stay out of politics.

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TL;DR If Ciri is anything like Ellen Ripley or Sara Connor then the Witcher 4 could live up to its predecessors. If not, then clearly good things don't last for ever. No matter how classic or iconic they are.

I want to be fair... but, in my humble opinion...

I don't have a problem with Ciri or Ciri being a Witcher or the protagonist of a Witcher game.

What I have a problem with is her becoming a Mary Sue or rather, a variation of the Mary Sue trope. She is after all the "child of Destiny", and that has always screamed Mary Sue to me.

That being said, I watched the announcement trailer and Ciri is clearly not Wonderwoman, despite having previously had access to the Elder Blood, I get that. So I'm not going to delve deep into the Witcher lore here because my point is: we're dealing with a fine line here.

I don't know ♥♥♥♥ about the lore, I literally just started reading The Witcher short stories. So I'm not going to respond to negative comments from lore nerds.

[I return friendly fire]

Escrito originalmente por Falcata13:

They will turn her into a mary sue.

"It isn't about the money, it's about the message"

[Observer]

Escrito originalmente por karhu:

Escrito originalmente por ヴレミア・サモ:

Funny how whenever a woman is the main character some people starts to "I don't like Mary Sue, I hope it's not one of them" but no one ever do the same with Gary Stu.

I don't like Geralt because he is a textbook example of a Gary Stu. Literal isekai main character. The reason why people don't mind Gary Stu's as much is that their target audience (teenage boys) are self-inserting. Young women don't typically have similar power fantasies/8th grade syndrome as adolescent boys, and perfect women in fiction usually only pass if they are someone's waifu. If you want to see people criticize bad tropes, then maybe look into literature that's actually aimed for mature audience and not some high fantasy teenage wish fulfillment like The Witcher.

Something new, now I m interested. What are mature topics/themes in literature?

[Mr_Fear1911]

I hope they do, so they will learn...or just go bankrupt before learn anything

[Jem]

Escrito originalmente por karhu:

Escrito originalmente por ヴレミア・サモ:

Funny how whenever a woman is the main character some people starts to "I don't like Mary Sue, I hope it's not one of them" but no one ever do the same with Gary Stu.

I don't like Geralt because he is a textbook example of a Gary Stu.

No.

There are a ton of more powerful characters than him in the continent.

Plus, Geralt doesn't do everything: he's not a wizard and he's not a politician. As opposed to Ciri, who is Nilfgaard heir and Elder blood enhanced.

The mutations were his things, but not anymore.

[Richard Steel]

Ciri, in the books, and as portrayed in Witcher 3, is pretty mistake prone. Impulsive, at times undisciplined, and somewhat driven by her emotions, she comes off as a pretty normal youth who was born into extraordinary circumstances, with extraordinary powers AND intense training in her youth under the witchers of Kaer Morhen, after surviving horrible circumstances as a child.

There's nothing in her depiction so far that conforms to the Mary Sue trope. CDPR did a fairly faithful continuation of the Witcher story, to include all of its primary and secondary characters. Unless they canned their previous Witcher series writing staff, I can think of no reason why they would suddenly change Ciri into a radically different character.

I wouldn't sweat things, and give the game a fair shot. So far, the small glimpse we've seen looks great!

[Flinsberg]

Geralt is practically a medieval John Wick. He's a stoic murder machine, who single-handedly killed a dragon and can slice through dozens of men all at once.

Even if they were to turn her into a Mary Sue, let's not pretend like Geralt was any different. The guy was OP af and people loved it.

[Jem]

Escrito originalmente por Flinsberg:

He's a stoic murder machine, who single-handedly killed a dragon and can slice through dozens of men all at once.

Sources ?

Even if they were to turn her into a Mary Sue, let's not pretend like Geralt was any different. The guy was OP af and people loved it.

No.

People love Geralt, because he is powerful but not OP. The Witcher is a semi-realistic medieval setting.

It's worrying to see that some people don't understand the franchise and the characters.

[Crow]

Mary Sue is a term for a character who is not overly powerful, but overly idealized. A character who is extremely successful, does everything perfectly, never makes mistakes, has infallible intuition and is extremely lucky.

[Jem]

And Geralt makes mistakes, is not extremely successful, isn't extremely lucky, and is not the most powerful being in this franchise.

And most importantly for the Mary Sue definition: he is not everything all at once.

[Valden21]

Escrito originalmente por Jem:

No.

There are a ton of more powerful characters than him in the continent.

Plus, Geralt doesn't do everything: he's not a wizard and he's not a politician. As opposed to Ciri, who is Nilfgaard heir and Elder blood enhanced.

But she's NOT a Mary Sue. Sheer power isn't the sole factor that makes a Mary Sue; there's more to it. Mary Sues are ALWAYS right, and they ALWAYS have confidence in their decisions and abilities. Certain in-game events leave Ciri suffering from a MASSIVE amount of survivor's guilt, and as a result of that, you end up having to help her rebuild her confidence. Mary Sues NEVER have to deal with that, as they never end up in those situations. Therefore, the fact that she IS suffering from survivor's guilt is Strike 1 against this "Ciri's-a-Mary-Sue" theory.

Not only that, but if Ciri was a Mary Sue, then EVERY aspect of EVERY plot and sub-plot would be tied to her. Radovid would have the witch-hunters constantly looking for her, every contract and sidequest would be tied to her, every scavenger hunt and treasure hunt would somehow involve her, and every Nilfgaardian soldier would be looking for her and feeding you information. But none of that's the case, so that's Strike 2.

FInally, there's a quality of rarity involved. A Mary Sue has the be the ONLY one like her that there's EVER been. No historical precedent whatsoever. Does that apply to Ciri? No, it doesn't. She's the only Child of the Elder Blood currently in existence, but she's not the only one to ever exist; there have been others. Strike 3.

[Jem]

Yes, and Geralt has never killed a dragon, sorry. YOU have not played the games.

[Flinsberg]

Escrito originalmente por Jem:

Geralt has never killed a dragon

Ok, now I know you're trolling xD

Have a nice day <3

[Crow]

Geralt has never killed a dragon, sorry

In the books, no, in the games you can do it, although it's optional. In The Witcher 2 you can kill a female dragon named Saesenthessis, better known as Saskia.

[Flinsberg]

Escrito originalmente por Crow:

Saesenthessis, better known as Saskia.

* spoilers *

[Jem]

Escrito originalmente por Crow:

Geralt has never killed a dragon, sorry

In the books, no, in the games you can do it, although it's optional.

1- She's officially alive in canon.

2- it's a possessed dragon/constrained dragon, not a dragon with its full capabilities.

3- Humans kill dragons: see Crinfrid reavers. So it's not a criteria for Mary Sue definition.

4- Geralt doesn't kill dragons in the lore. Point blank.
So no way to be sure he would be capable of doing such a thing.