Saving Anna AND the children ?

[Epic]

I freed the spirit before going to downwarren in my NG+, which apparenlty concluded into me saving the children and Anna. I thought saving one would kill the other. Or is there another trigger for how the children are/how Anna is saved ?

[v0]

What you experienced's correct. However for people of Downwarrren freeing spirit means death so no way to save everyone out of Anna, bog children, Downwarren inhabitants.

[Epic]

Ah, ok, always thought that there was a decision only between Anna and the children (concluding the deaths of the inhabitants). Didn't know the inhabitants were a separate "choice".

[v0]

Originally posted by BuzzardBee:

Originally posted by EpicHeadshot:

I freed the spirit before going to downwarren in my NG+, which apparenlty concluded into me saving the children and Anna. I thought saving one would kill the other. Or is there another trigger for how the children are/how Anna is saved ?

You see, the Tree Spirit has been targeted by the people of Downwarren. They've been trying to destroy her. They've also been offering sacrifices to the Crones for protection, not only their ears but also children, in order to save themselves. So having those people die is justice of a sort for the things they've done in the past. Saving the children at the orphanage, on the other hand, is an act of mercy and decency since they've harmed no one and have been sacrificed in order to ensure the folks at Downwarren escape the plague. Hardly a fair exchange if you ask me.

We disagree here BB but that's fine. Sacrificing children one way or another's pretty much way of life in Velen (just listen to what villagers say to each other). Surely these people've common sense and calculate pros and cons when they choose to do that just like they've presumably done for generations. I don't blame them for not being able to fight status quo but I only know TW2 & TW3. Was Velen life so much better in past?

[v0]

Originally posted by BuzzardBee:

Originally posted by v0:

We disagree here BB but that's fine. Sacrificing children one way or another's pretty much way of life in Velen (just listen to what villagers say to each other). Surely these people've common sense and calculate pros and cons when they choose to do that just like they've presumably done for generations. I don't blame them for not being able to fight status quo but I only know TW2 & TW3. Was Velen life so much better in past?

So you'd be okay with sacrificing some orphan you found on the road just so you could be spared the plague? Why stop at orphans then? Suppose some guy comes along and says let's sacrifice your kid or even you so the others can have it easier. You fine with that too?

If there's no other way yes. Simply count lives saved vs lives lost and maybe adjust for potential years of future life (eg generally better sacrifice old people than young ones). Life's tough like war medic triage decisions you can't save everyone you do what gets you most lives saved. Point's they never sacrifice all their kids as that'd make entire village die out. Some fraction get sacrificed only and overall that's better than getting whole village wiped out by plague. I do consider this common sense given such situations. Of course not easy decision to make which kid or whom specifically so unless someone volunteers eventually'd draw straws.

Similar decisions happen in Velen on family level based on conversations you overhear. Except reverse preference for age because young ones can die to all sorts of random diseases so life expectancy's generally low and better nurture those that already survived some years.

---

We could also get more serious move to real life eg issues of US poverty whether its better to prolong life of certain famous individuals vs large groups of poor citizens and implications regarding taxation, health care, education, inequality etc but that'd take us way way away from TW3.

[v0]

Originally posted by BuzzardBee:

Originally posted by v0:

If there's no other way yes. Simply count lives saved vs lives lost and maybe adjust for potential years of future life (eg generally better sacrifice old people than young ones). Life's tough like war medic triage decisions you can't save everyone you do what gets you most lives saved. Point's they never sacrifice all their kids as that'd make entire village die out. Some fraction get sacrificed only and overall that's better than getting whole village wiped out by plague. I do consider this common sense given such situations. Of course not easy decision to make which kid or whom specifically so unless someone volunteers eventually'd draw straws.

Similar decisions happen in Velen on family level based on conversations you overhear except reverse preference for age. I guess rationale being young ones can die to all sorts of random diseases and such so better focus on those that already survived some years.

---

We could also put this into real life eg issues of US poverty whether its better to prolong life of certain famous individuals vs large groups of poor citizens and implications regarding taxation, health care, education, inequality etc but that'd take us way away from TW3.

So let's just euthanize all the elderly, sick and small orphans so the rest of us can live the good life. I hear you. It sickens me to no end but I get it. I do not want to live in your world.

You twisted it. I'm not talking about "good life". It has to be matter of life and death. Eg if choice was to have large chunks or all humanity wiped out unless you do something then yes human sacrifices're on my table. I'd even say that they're already happening right now albeit indirectly but *without* any such dire situation just people don't care about poor people dying. Which's not something I approve because it's exactly this "good life" thing you said - but I can't help seeing it so it's sad fact about current world we live in.

EDIT: btw lemme pose this one to you BB. If you had triplets and two of them with deadly kidney disease at young age would you A) let those two die or B) use one kidney from the healthy one to save one ill one or C) use 1+1=2 kidneys from the healthy one to save both ill ones and lose healthy one? I'd choose B and flip coin about who to save because either way you max save two. But now what if slightly changed situation (not kidney now). You had quadruplets, three terminally ill ones that could be all saved with transplants by sacrificing healthy one, or you could save only one ill kid via transplant so healthy one survives, or do nothing? I've no clear idea what I'd choose because logically 3 > 2 but it's not healthy one's fault that he's healthy. So most probably I'd save one ill kid and roll dice which one.

[Shahar "Dawn" Or (mightyiam)]

Is there any proof that the tree spirit actually does evil apart from immediately after its release?

[Tenshin51]

Originally posted by mightyiam:

Is there any proof that the tree spirit actually does evil apart from immediately after its release?

She created the crones and been killed by the crones. Making the spirit wanting revenge and making the spirit much more a powerful wraith that lingers this Witcher world.

Even Crones cannot touch her!!! Able to control a curse creature, animals and monster in her area.

Also your roleplaying a witcher and your not a knight. Its quite obvious those kids cannot be saved and those kids will not survive anyway w/ the harsh world of WItcher w/out an adult taking care of them.

Spirit could quite save them but it could be worst due to fate. Those kids could also been branded by the crones it just to late to save them.

She also massacre the village (they truly deserve it) but its like dealing w/ Pesta..

[Tenshin51]

Originally posted by BuzzardBee:

Originally posted by Tenshin51:

She created the crones and been killed by the crones. Making the spirit wanting revenge and making the spirit much more a powerful wraith that lingers this Witcher world.

Even Crones cannot touch her!!! Able to control a curse creature, animals and monster in her area.

Also your roleplaying a witcher and your not a knight. Its quite obvious those kids cannot be saved and those kids will not survive anyway w/ the harsh world of WItcher w/out an adult taking care of them.

Spirit could quite save them but it could be worst due to fate. Those kids could also been branded by the crones it just to late to save them.

She also massacre the village (they truly deserve it) but its like dealing w/ Pesta..

If the Spirit frees the children, they will be safe from the Crones. You'll find them later on at a school in Novigrad.

Lol there are not those kids!! Witcher 3 have limited npc model even children. I didn't even save the kids in my playthrough and those kid still show up in Novigard and also very different.

Also if you read a book in the game that spirit is evil. Every spirit that wants revenge and vengeance in the game are evil. As shown the spirit massacre the village.

Also those kids cannot escape their fate. They could be branded by crones. Seriously how long will the spirit protect them against the crones?? The spirit doesn't have much power and wanted revenge.

[Tenshin51]

Originally posted by BuzzardBee:

Originally posted by v0:

We disagree here BB but that's fine. Sacrificing children one way or another's pretty much way of life in Velen (just listen to what villagers say to each other). Surely these people've common sense and calculate pros and cons when they choose to do that just like they've presumably done for generations. I don't blame them for not being able to fight status quo but I only know TW2 & TW3. Was Velen life so much better in past?

So you think it's justified to sacrifice the lives of children just to save your own skin? The people of Downwarren are doing just that. So please tell me what makes them so special that they deserve to make that kind of decision? Kill children so that they can be spared the plague. So if someone else comes along and determines that they should die so that some other village should be spared, that would be okay with you too?

Yes! I am not roleplaying a goody two shoes knight.

It just quite impossible to save them if you look at the big picture.

As you said Anna's curse cannot be reverse unless Geralt make a deal w/ Crones, sadly her fate cannot be changed just like in the book lore.

It showed in the book lore that destiny is irreversible.

As i said those kids can be branded w/out knowing it they have seal their doom.

Also why would you trust a vengeful spirit?? Geralt encountered quite a lot of vengeful spirit in the game and this one is just to powerful to be unleashed.

As i said it like dealing w/ the Pesta.

Also your getting a bit off topic here pushing your morals and opinion in this thread.

Were discussing the tree spirit is evil. Then definitely the tree spirit is evil in the game as shown in a book.

[rahmanmuhammad]

Originally posted by BuzzardBee:

Originally posted by EpicHeadshot:

I freed the spirit before going to downwarren in my NG+, which apparenlty concluded into me saving the children and Anna. I thought saving one would kill the other. Or is there another trigger for how the children are/how Anna is saved ?

You see, the Tree Spirit has been targeted by the people of Downwarren. They've been trying to destroy her. They've also been offering sacrifices to the Crones for protection, not only their ears but also children, in order to save themselves. So having those people die is justice of a sort for the things they've done in the past. Saving the children at the orphanage, on the other hand, is an act of mercy and decency since they've harmed no one and have been sacrificed in order to ensure the folks at Downwarren escape the plague. Hardly a fair exchange if you ask me.

The children can only be saved by the Tree Spriit. However if you free it AFTER having met with the Crones, they will blame Anna for the children's disappearance and curse her. And there is no way to save Anna after that.

So the only way to save the children AND Anna is to begin The Ladies of the Wood quest as normal up until the point where you get Johnny's voice back for him but when he wants you to follow him back to the orphanage to meet the Crones, leave and go do the Whispering Hillock thing and free the Tree Spirit. Then continue following Johnny and proceed as usuall with everything else. When speaking to the Crones, tell them that you freed the Tree Spirit, and then they won't blame Anna and curse her.

Hi,

I have saved the Tree before starting the Lady of the Woods quest, and didn't tell the crones that I have freed the tree. Anna didn't die but went insane, and I didn't see the children anymore. So I reloaded my earlier save and follow exactly your advice. But unfortunately with same result.

As far as I know, you can only be confirm that the orphans are alive if you find a note on Marabella's table which says New admissions to Miss Marabella's shelter.

Following both the strategy above, I didn't find the note.

Did you find the note on her table? How are you sure that the orphans are alive?

Thanks in advance :)

[Shotgun Malise]

Hate to burst your bubble but destroying the spirit is the best path to take.

The Baron lives, anna is taken to a doctor to get healed (crones did not make her crazy by spell or curse). The family is slowly fixing their bonds at the end of the process.

Godling Johny says the crones care for their people (in their own way) and keep their word. The children themselves are sent to another place. Finally the crones eat experience, you can assume this by their dialogue at the end.

This means that the children are not eaten due to lack of experience and are sent somewhere else, which the crones and the spirit both say this is true.

[rahmanmuhammad]

Originally posted by Shotgun Malise:

Hate to burst your bubble but destroying the spirit is the best path to take.

The Baron lives, anna is taken to a doctor to get healed (crones did not make her crazy by spell or curse). The family is slowly fixing their bonds at the end of the process.

Godling Johny says the crones care for their people (in their own way) and keep their word. The children themselves are sent to another place. Finally the crones eat experience, you can assume this by their dialogue at the end.

This means that the children are not eaten due to lack of experience and are sent somewhere else, which the crones and the spirit both say this is true.

Hi,

Thank you for your opinion.

I want to make sure the orphans are alive. And as far as I know, the one way to be sure of that is to read the note on Marabella's desk named "New admissions to Miss Marabella's shelter".

But the only confirmed way to achieve that is to free the spirit after meeting the crones which in turn causes Anna to die of curse (turns to hag and so on).

I want to save the orphans and Anna. But if I kill the spirit, I don't get the note on Marabella's desk. Which is the same result I have now from both of my playthroughs. How can you be sure they are alive other than just assuming they are alive?

I am sorry that I am being nitpicky, but this is my 4th playthrough and I want it to be perfect.

BTW, I just noticed that when I returned Johnny's voice and then went to the tree before meeting the crones, the tree doesn't say anything about the orphans even though I have already met the orphans. But after I meet the crones, and then go to the tree, only then it mentions about the orphans.

[Shotgun Malise]

Another way to look at it is that the spirits are in the same lieu as the crones. And the spirit takes the children and then makes demons out of them.

Someone posted a picture where a book tells of the spirit . The spirit is indeed a greater evil than the crones. And that the spirit is somewhat akin to how the crones were created due to the evil of the spirit.

In both choices the children are safe, there is no direct verbage that they die or any evidence of their destruction in both scenarios.

[Hexares]

My outcome :

I liberated the spirit before meeting the crones, and I got the alive yet crazy Anna ending, where she is going to the blue mountains with the repenting baron.

According to what most people said it should not be possible. And yet it seems it is.

Up to date game version, 1.31.

In discussions, the crones complained the children were not there anymore and concluded the spirit took them away. Then they threatened Anna telling her it was the last time she crossed them. Which happens only when you normally kill the tree spirit which leads to the dead baron and Anna ending. Howerver they also did some comments about the children being yummy or something...

So it seems the children were saved. At least if we only consider what the crones said in cutscenes about the freed spirit.

HOWEVER !

I could not find the children in Novigrad, which normally happens if you free the tree spirit AFTER you meet the crones who then task you with killing the tree spirit.
The village was still destroyed.
So there's room for interpretation here. Either the children are alive and well somewhere else, taken away by the spirit, but aren't in Novigrad, either the crones did eat them.

Which gives us 3 endings indeed :
go to the crones, kill spirit, children are eaten, Anna is crazy, village is ok
go to the crones, free spirit, children are saved, Anna dies, village is destroyed
go to the spirit, free her, children seemingly saved by spirit (?) but can't be found, Anna is crazy, village is destroyed

That was my experience with this famous "3rd ending" which seems heavily glitched anyway.

[Nara]

I got the ending where Baron and Anna dies, hated myself, reloaded two hours back and redid it right this time. The way I see it, it's a clear cut case if you consider more factors than just the immediate shock of dead children.

See, even if they live, they will grow up in the same world that made the people of Downwarren what they are - fearful and desperate. City folk is no better, in fact, they are often less humane than peasants. Who is to say the kids won't grow up to be ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥? I'd say it's likely.

Add also to this that an entire village encompasses more than a handful of lives. There were five orphans I believe? In addition to that, in order for them to live, you have to let loose the spirit that created the Crones. An evil, twisted spirit at that. If the Crones were this powerful, then what damage do you think that spirit is capable of? You've probably unleashed a horror that will cost many decent people their lives in the future, child, young, old, man, woman, etc.

Finally, the Baron is surprisingly a necessary evil - yes he's no saint, but his successor is much worse. if he can cure Anna then he will likely come back and bring back some level of Order to Crow's Perch.

All in all, we stand to lose a lot more by saving the kids. Sad, I know, but that is something I like about Witcher 3 - it doesn't back down from reminding us that the world can be a cruel place, and sometimes, there is no good ending, just the least bad one.

Oh and we don't know the kids but the Baron is a well developed character that we actually know a lot about and have had time to become attached to. But that doesn't play into this as all lives are made equal.