The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt

The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt

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Nerdmigo 10/ago./2016 às 11:53
Discussion: Quality of TW3:WH (versus other games)
First up: I havent finished it yet, and i play on GOG so i dont have it here on steam, i am about 50 to 60 hours in (playtime bug on GOG) and today i decided to continue a bit..

And HOLY CRAP is the Witcher3 really better then most..even all RPGs..
I decided to give Dragon Age Inquistion a try for 10 bucks.. i played for about 20 hours then i had to quit.

From my experience yes, DA:I is big, and polished to a degree, but it feels.. shallow. Its a big AAA production that has no heart and soul.. it can be felt, in the uninspired combat and even in the UI which has certain weird inconsistensis that even tiny indie games dont have..

Then on the ohter hand you got the TW3:WW which got better after every upgrade.. loving the 1.22 patch right now. everything works better. Its a massive production too, polish and scope are in place, but also, and i cant really find any other words then: TW3 is a truly inspired game, created with heart and soul and love for the medium....

So i wanted to ask is this just me ? Why does DA:I feel so cheap and shallow and TW3 so inspired and aweinspiring ?
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jss1138 12/ago./2016 às 17:50 
Escrito originalmente por Improper Use:
so of the potential two methods we have the lower values being used.

I'm afraid I'm still lost here. I'm just not seeing how any of this is sequitor with my comment that level affects efficiency, and skills affect strategy.
Improper Use 12/ago./2016 às 18:02 
sorry my marketing department got carried away.
abonamente 12/ago./2016 às 18:29 
Escrito originalmente por sjrekis:
Escrito originalmente por noivoieidoi:
When The Witcher came out, several years ago, I thought that one was THE RPG.[...]

W1 had a lot of sex cards and very wierd plot driven choices. Alvin and Shani were wasted in the game and Triss was very inconsitant. The only character I liked in W1 was Siegfried. Hes easily the most interesting of Gerals associates in the entire series, followed by Triss and Roach in W2.

The sex cards were one of the things I liked. So much funnier than the Steam achievements system (never cared for that one). And a much more creative approach to collecting items than the Gwent mini-game (which I already said I liked in TW3 and it was way better than simply finding collectibles in any other game). The purpose and the principles are the same - collect the entire deck in time, only in a less conventional way: when you 'play your cards' they are not cards, literally.

You are aware that Alvin is the 'half-evil with a grand vision' time traveler whom Geralt, Triss and Shani try to protect the entire game then decide to kill him, right? Just because he is unlikeable or because he does horrible things doesn't mean that he is necessarily wrong in what he does. That's what I meant by 'interesting and complex characters': the ones you cannot know from the beginning - who are they, what motivates them, and more importantly, whether they are in fact 'good folks' or not, according to your own system of values. And certain events, like those in the Murky Waters chapter might even change the way you see things. At some point they might convince you of the validity of their point of view and you might decide that you judged them wrongly all that time. Yes, help the poor, hungry and sick Scoia'tael, bring the outcasts some bread from the village. Hate the human soldiers for preparing an ambush and wanting to exterminate them. Then you learn about the Scoia'tael plot to exterminate the humans. You understand why would they do that, you might even agree that what they plan to do is right and well deserved by the humans. You can relate to them, for you are a monster yourself, after all, feared and despised by most humans. Still... Can you really, really condone their acts? Are people like Alina and Celina indeed responsible for their fate? Did they ever give you any reason to believe that they had anything to do with all the wrong the Scoia'tael suffered? What did your human friend Dandelion ever do to them? This kind of characters, no matter what you decide in the end, sometimes make you question your very beliefs.

Siegfried is a nice, likeable fellow, indeed. A bit too unidimensional though, kind of a comic books character. I liked him, but again, this is not what I am talking about. Characters like Alvin, Adda the White, Zoltan Chivay, Abigail, Toruviel, Yaevin, Queen of the Night, Celina and Alina, King Foltest - complex, sometimes even conflicted characters, not entirely good or purely evil, characters which may fall or perhaps could be saved, who make mistakes or who redeem previous mistakes. There are also the colective characters, like the good villagers who became a hating mob willing to execute the witch Abigail and forgetting their own sins. I cared about them and I was so sad when things like Toruviel's death (labeled as a traitor's death) happened. She was just a police officer trying to do her job and dying in the line of duty.

Triss is maybe one of the best examples for what I mean. Inconsistent is one word for it. But I believe that 'complex, temperamental, a bit arrogant (with good reason though), with conflicting interests and allegiances' is what would describe her much better. I hated and I loved her. She did her best in an impossible situation. How would you judge her now? Is she a heartless conspirator who played you? Is she the passionate woman who almost died protecting you and your friends? But did she in fact protect you, the co-conspirators, both, or something bigger than anyone and everything? Was that love? Duty? A bit of both? None? I thought that 'the new Triss' in TW2&3 was less appealing from this point of view, for her personality lost something in transition. Now she is just a simple girl, less mysterious and more predictable. Oh, yes, she has a bit of an affiliation with some occult political and magic circles, but nothing to worry about, she is more of an outsider, without any real knowledge or influence. I really liked her better in TW1.

And Shani... think hard before saying something you might regret about her :) But seriously, I agree that she was a wasted opportunity. I was surprised what an important role she played in the game, compared with the books. Seems a bit like an unfinished project the developers had in mind at some point, then abandoned for some reason.

My point again: people need entertainment, but also challenges. In the video games world, although this is not my preferred genre, I find a story driven game like TW1 with less obvious, finer points, which dares me to judge for myself and decide what's right, what's wrong and what's pragmatic, to be both challenging and entertaining. When things become way too easy (TW3), that story driven game's appeal is lost on me. I also have little love for the false morality system in so many games today, in fact just a simple psychological reinforcing mechanism: yay! I was rewarded with 1 Paragon point, positive karma, whatever, I am such a nice (or bad) person and this is such a great game! I much prefer an engaging story where I can relate to various characters after understanding their respective points of view, then choose the lesser evil (in my opinion, not necessarily the same as the writer's opinion). This is where TW1 shines, that's one of the things I kind of missed in the following installments, and that's why I appreciate the characters and the story in the first game more than the ones in the following two. This kind of circumstances and choices are more frequent there. I hoped that the creators of the series would build on those basis and the game would evolve in this direction, which didn't happen, and that became one of the sources for my disappointment with TW3.
abonamente 12/ago./2016 às 18:52 
Escrito originalmente por Improper Use:
Witcher 1 was like a C grade movie with the early to late teen market as its target. Sex cards, cringeworthy females and piss poor characterisations.
At least by the time the 3rd came around the writers had hit apon using humor as a method and ceased the need to dramatize the ridiculous plot movements.
If you have played hearts of stone and completed the wedding quest, you have a differing viewpoint on how witcher 1 laid out sex themes.

Overall this IP is a great example of how bad gameplay is 'just accepted' cause of the populist and ever churning nature of the game industries target audience.
Give it time. One day the movies might become as good as the books (many of them already are) and the story driven video games as good as the movies today.
Y Ddraig Ddu 12/ago./2016 às 18:55 
Escrito originalmente por noivoieidoi:
Give it time. One day the movies might become as good as the books (many of them already are) and the story driven video games as good as the movies today.
I'd honestly say that The Witcher 2 as a movie is better than most modern movies today, at least as far as big-budget sci-fi/fantasy movies go.
MaximumEffort 12/ago./2016 às 22:17 
Escrito originalmente por jss1138:
Escrito originalmente por ydraig:
Inquisition only. Origins on PC is meant to be played from an isometric POV exclusively, ala any pre-KOTOR BioWare game.

Thanks.

So is Inquisition worthwhile, having skipped Origins?

Yes
greenknight 13/ago./2016 às 2:01 
I just started playing the game, about 18 hours in according to ingame, and I know it will go down as one my favourites already.

I always liked the Witcher but the first two games had too many issues barely saved by the good and different story and setting. After the disappointment that was Dragon Age Inquisition and the much smaller disappointment of Fallout 4 I was wary of the open world approach because I really prefer the strength of direction and storytelling and the high detail you get from a good oldschool rpg experience even if it has to be in 2d like Pillars of eternity.

But somehow they seem to have managed to transport that into a fully fledged open 3d world that puts Fallout 4 to shame with its density and content and puts Dragon Age to shame in all kinds of ways. Restored my faith in the open world approach for rpgs. Just has to be done by the right people.

Última edição por greenknight; 13/ago./2016 às 2:05
Nyx 15/ago./2016 às 12:48 
Escrito originalmente por ydraig:
Escrito originalmente por Nyx:
combat is not the best other than that everthing is great
Quest design, character progression and the writing of the main plot also ranges from mediocre to flat-out terrible.
the quest are the best of any rpg out there and better than most non rpgs too charecter progression works fine as well your points are flat out wrong
HALL 15/ago./2016 às 13:24 
Escrito originalmente por Nyx:
Escrito originalmente por ydraig:
Quest design, character progression and the writing of the main plot also ranges from mediocre to flat-out terrible.
the quest are the best of any rpg out there and better than most non rpgs too charecter progression works fine as well your points are flat out wrong

I have to say character progression is kinda a let down and no where near fallout series or elder scrolls. I understand they have to keep with the lore and the content and story makes up for the character progression and lack of "unique" weapons.
seektravota 15/ago./2016 às 14:10 
I own both DA:I and TW3. They are different games. But I found myself playing TW3 more.
Nyx 15/ago./2016 às 14:27 
Escrito originalmente por Dubbin:
Escrito originalmente por Nyx:
the quest are the best of any rpg out there and better than most non rpgs too charecter progression works fine as well your points are flat out wrong

I have to say character progression is kinda a let down and no where near fallout series or elder scrolls. I understand they have to keep with the lore and the content and story makes up for the character progression and lack of "unique" weapons.
this isent a game like elder scroll or fallout you play geralt and theres only so much geralt can do
Y Ddraig Ddu 15/ago./2016 às 15:13 
Escrito originalmente por Nyx:
Escrito originalmente por ydraig:
Quest design, character progression and the writing of the main plot also ranges from mediocre to flat-out terrible.
the quest are the best of any rpg out there and better than most non rpgs too charecter progression works fine as well your points are flat out wrong
Quest DESIGN. Lol, you've played "every RPG out there" to make that claim? What BS.

RPGs that have far far far better side quest design, just off the top of my head: Divine Divinity, Gothic 1, Gothic 2, Dragon Age: Origins, Divinity: Original Sin, Witcher 1, Witcher 2, Risen 1, Risen 2, Fallout 1, Fallout 2, Fallout New Vegas, Vampire: Bloodlines, Morrowind, Arcanum: OSaMO... and literally dozens more.

Show me a quest in TW3 with even 10% the intricay of this classic quest in F:NV: http://i.imgur.com/mAENC.jpg

The only flat-out wrong person here is you. Play some actual RPGs, please.
Nyx 15/ago./2016 às 19:33 
Escrito originalmente por ydraig:
Escrito originalmente por Nyx:
the quest are the best of any rpg out there and better than most non rpgs too charecter progression works fine as well your points are flat out wrong
Quest DESIGN. Lol, you've played "every RPG out there" to make that claim? What BS.

RPGs that have far far far better side quest design, just off the top of my head: Divine Divinity, Gothic 1, Gothic 2, Dragon Age: Origins, Divinity: Original Sin, Witcher 1, Witcher 2, Risen 1, Risen 2, Fallout 1, Fallout 2, Fallout New Vegas, Vampire: Bloodlines, Morrowind, Arcanum: OSaMO... and literally dozens more.

Show me a quest in TW3 with even 10% the intricay of this classic quest in F:NV: http://i.imgur.com/mAENC.jpg

The only flat-out wrong person here is you. Play some actual RPGs, please.
I am going to leave it at this quest design for witcher 3 was priased by most people who played thus it has a 9/10 or 10/10 on most sites its good where as some of those games arent nearly as praised so it just goes to show how heavly opinionated you are and also I said most I will agree DA:O is better and D:OS is also better witcher 2 quest are on worse than witcher 3s by a long shot fallout new vegas is arguebley better in some aspects but in others witcher 3 is much much better
Y Ddraig Ddu 15/ago./2016 às 19:52 
Escrito originalmente por Nyx:
Escrito originalmente por ydraig:
Quest DESIGN. Lol, you've played "every RPG out there" to make that claim? What BS.

RPGs that have far far far better side quest design, just off the top of my head: Divine Divinity, Gothic 1, Gothic 2, Dragon Age: Origins, Divinity: Original Sin, Witcher 1, Witcher 2, Risen 1, Risen 2, Fallout 1, Fallout 2, Fallout New Vegas, Vampire: Bloodlines, Morrowind, Arcanum: OSaMO... and literally dozens more.

Show me a quest in TW3 with even 10% the intricay of this classic quest in F:NV: http://i.imgur.com/mAENC.jpg

The only flat-out wrong person here is you. Play some actual RPGs, please.
I am going to leave it at this quest design for witcher 3 was priased by most people who played thus it has a 9/10 or 10/10 on most sites its good where as some of those games arent nearly as praised
Completely irrelevant. Skyrim was highly praised (for its quests and most everything else) on release, with an even higher Metacritic score than Witcher 3, yet are you trying to tell me Skyrim has good quest design?

also I said most I will agree DA:O is better and D:OS is also better witcher 2 quest are on worse than witcher 3s by a long shot fallout new vegas is arguebley better in some aspects but in others witcher 3 is much much better
Quest design =/= quest writing. Never forget that.

But quests like In the Claws of Madness, The Scent of Incense, Malena, Troll Trouble and With Flickering Heart are miles above pretty much every side quest in all of The Witcher 3... by several miles.
Última edição por Y Ddraig Ddu; 15/ago./2016 às 19:53
Jhemp12 15/ago./2016 às 22:12 
It's probably the most immersive game i've ever played. I'd put CDPR up there with Naughty Dog when it comes to telling a story and making you care about the people in the story. However, the gameplay was far from perfect. CDPR just keeps getting better though so i'm really looking forward to Cyberpunk.
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Publicado em: 10/ago./2016 às 11:53
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