Looting NPCs' belongings breaks immersion.

[dunnothisguy]

Seriously, that sucks. I know it's game, there must be some conventions, but this really looks just sloppy. I can barge into most of the houses on my way, and pillage all belongins of some guy right in from of him. He won't even protest nominally, he just turns a blind eye on this completely.

It could be relatively easy tackled like this: when an owner is nearby, you just can't loot any of their stuff. You'll immideately get warning from them and can't interact with a chest or a bag. You still can cast a sign on them, subduing their will, and do what you inteded quickly, but each such action will lower your "social profile" rating, and some global backfire due to this will ensue. Like, all prices of all merchants in the world will increase for you, in dialogues it will be harder to persuade people to help you etc. This negative effect would be diminishing over time, if you'll stop your anti-social behavior.

Or can it be a bug or something? That really looks strange, taking into accoount Witcher series (both books and games) seem to try to build a believable fantasy world (as much as it's possible, of course). That breaks immiersion significantly.

[dunnothisguy]

Originally posted by LW:

Meh it's just a looting mechanic sure, does it break immersion?
Yeah it does, hence why i simply don't do it, it is also classified as stealing if you try it in front of the guards but yeah you can walk into a peasents house and rob him blind.

Yea, you can pretend, you can play it in your head as if you actually just bought it from them etc. But those are not excuses for bad game system. Most of notorious RPG games of recent years were able to provide you some public order system, preventing you from commiting outrageous stuff, or at least providing some tradeoffs if you'll choose to be asocial type. Like, it's done particularily good in Elders Scrolls and Divinity series. And in Witcher 3, which is regarded as one of the best games of last years, there is almost NONE. I can even barge into peasant's house and slay all his family - and I don't see (so far) how it actually can backfire on me. Yes, medieval times were harsh, but such deeds won't be tolerated anyway, and your bad fame would eventually start to haunt you throughout the land.

[deidian]

I think there's a clear intention behind the TW3 looting system:

-Geralt is a witcher...as long as the game progresses you'll realize that a normal human annoying or threatening a witcher is something just stupid for the side of the human.

-Is suicidal if you are a normal citizen or peasant.

-There's war going on everywhere and the places around Geralt roams are conquered lands or in process of conquest. Common folks don't trust the guards in most cases.

-They have more important troubles than worrying about a petty theft(most items are junk) from a witcher, who they also fear and might kill them.

Several reasons why a peasant ignores Geralt stealing him/her.

This is not Skyrim world, simple. Instead of complaining would be good if you would give a good look at how is the land and how the people perceives Geralt, politics and the guards.

[dunnothisguy]

With all due respect, those reasons you provided seems a bit far-stretched. The situation this land is in is not that much different from a typical midieval environment constantly torn by local wars. Yet you won't see individuals barging into random houses belonging to subjects of some lord, and robbing them, then simply going to the capital and have a beer in a tavern full of guards. Those individuals were named "bandits" and after inflicting too much troubles for rumors to spread, some kind of force would be dispatched to get rid of them. They would have to hide in some uninhabitted areas constantly to not be hanged. There were exceptions, of course. If you are especially high-ranked nobility, you could treat subjects and property of some low-ranked ones rather disrespectfully, and expect to get away with this, or at worst to pay yoursefl out of any troubles eventually. Also, it was known that some poor knights were resorting to petty robbery as well (though usually within their own fief), and were able to get away with it for some time.

Yet Gerald, traveling constantly from one settlement to another, and being a rather well-known character over those lands, yet still not in possetion of enought political power to bend laws to his whims, can't afford such behavior as it's just a matter of time before rumors will reach ears of some powerful figure and it will get irritated that some "mutated, ungodly freak" disturbs order in his domain. Even just a simple rumor would be enough to make him a non-grata person in main settlements with high threat of being imprisoned (and however good a fighter witcher is, he is still not a one-man army). And that's the aspect that is completely omitted from the game.

[deidian]

Originally posted by Mori:

With all due respect, those reasons you provided seems a bit far-stretched. The situation this land is in is not that much different from a typical midieval environment constantly torn by local wars. Yet you won't see individuals barging into random houses belonging to subjects of some lord, and robbing them, then simply going to the capital and have a beer in a tavern full of guards. Those individuals were named "bandits" and after inflicting too much troubles for rumors to spread, some kind of force would be dispatched to get rid of them. They would have to hide in some uninhabitted areas constantly to not be hanged. There were exceptions, of course. If you are especially high-ranked nobility, you could treat subjects and property of some low-ranked ones rather disrespectfully, and expect to get away with this, or at worst to pay yoursefl out of any troubles eventually. Also, it was known that some poor knights were resorting to petty robbery as well (though usually within their own fief), and were able to get away with it for some time.

Yet Gerald, traveling constantly from one settlement to another, and being a rather well-known character over those lands, yet still not in possetion of enought political power to bend laws to his whims, can't afford such behavior as it's just a matter of time before rumors will reach ears of some powerful figure and it will get irritated that some "mutated, ungodly freak" disturbs order in his domain. Even just a simple rumor would be enough to make him a non-grata person in main settlements with high threat of being imprisoned (and however good a fighter witcher is, he is still not a one-man army). And that's the aspect that is completely omitted from the game.

You'll see the world of the witcher is not the run of the mill medieval world. Bandits lurk around cities, specially the free city Novigrad. Actually the city is ruled in shadows by 4 criminals and a honorably corrupted religious insittution. Castle lords are many times the ones pillaging the peasants.... Don't compare, as I say is not the run of the mill medieval fantasy regarding world state.

[dunnothisguy]

Originally posted by Damián:

You'll see the world of the witcher is not the run of the mill medieval world. Bandits lurk around cities, specially the free city Novigrad. Actually the city is ruled in shadows by 4 criminals and a honorably corrupted religious insittution. Castle lords are many times the ones pillaging the peasants.... Don't compare, as I say is not the run of the mill medieval fantasy regarding world state.

Yes, it's not medieval, but actually closer to Renesance era, with magic instead of technology and [relateively] modern weaponry. Thus much more organized and tightly managed. And nothing of what you've mentioned actually discards arguments I presented. Even today in many countries you'll see "lords pillaging their peasants" and "cities runs by criminal masterminds", bending laws like they want. Yet you won't be able to just barge into any house and rob anyone, being just a random guy traveling the roads yourself. Or there would be no homes, no harvets gathered, no taxes, the state would stop to function, as fear majority of people has in the face of punishment delivered by somebody maintaining the order is the first thing that keeps order and allows society to function.

Whateve "evil" those parties seem to you, they, suprisingly, still need _their_ state/city to function properly. Those guys are the last one you can expect to share their power and wealth with some arrogant prick ravaging their turf. Unless you are associated with those _political powers_, you are a moth to them, even being a witcher. They won't think twice to make an example out of you, just to not look weak in the eyes of subjects and their rivals. And even if you are certain you can deal with their open assault, you are surely won't like to live with a threat of a crossbow bolt to your hind for years.

That's because real world, even fantasy one, has tradeoffs. Witcher's world (from books) had them as well. Geralt was constantly afraid of crossing road of some local king or mage, or powerful political party. He was on the brink of death many times, and if need would arise, there were means to deal with him quickly. A regular sorcerer would bend an unsuspecting witcher over in any way, if he would wish so. You just try to protect sloppy game designing practices for the sake of it at this point.

[i-Jinx]

The concern seems kind of arbitrary to me. If that behaviour by Geralt is immersion breaking, how about the fact that civilians never actually have a use for the things he "steals"? They don't eat the food or spend the money. It will just sit there forever if he doesn't take it.

[deidian]

You are taking it out of context. No king, lord or whatever is going to cross Geralt for entering a peasant hut and stealing some bread. Most of these powers care about the big picture of things, not about an individual stealing...and even in that case they sometimes can't just control their state.

The only one who does nothing is the peasant...best who could do a peasant against Geralt if he sees him stealing is just letting it pass. You can also threaten people and nothing happens, they just get scared and you can go on in it as much as you want. Just simple, uninmersive or not common folks fear Geralt enough to stay frozen if he happens to steal something from them...they don't have valuable things anyway so.... The only instances in which peasants may attack is if they are an organized group, otherwise they do nothing.

If not, what are the chances of the peasant. Calling upon a guard who just conquered his land and is sucking his blood even harder than Geralt can do stealing? grabbing a knife?

Do not use also our time as comparative too. Today we try to not resort too much in killing spreads when things don't go like we want...just for example.

PS: i-Jinx has also the point. No game is going to be fully inmersive. It will always show it's true face at some point, no matter how good the graphics are. So you have to make a little effort.

[Cowskier]

actually if you do it in towns the guards attack you immidiately if they see you. Otherwise tbh the most i'd expect is a pouty face because what the ♥♥♥♥ is old man McWartface going to do against Geralt slayer of kings

[Cowskier]

Originally posted by BuzzardBee:

It's a freaking game, for crying out loud. How else are you to get the money you need to buy the stuff you must for the game? Contracts don't pay nearly enough to sustain you, let alone pay for all those Gwent cards, crafting costs and repairs.

All RPGs have a looting system. Get over it.

You want real immersion? Find someone to build you a time machine and really go back to that era. See how long you survive while grasping tight to your immersion factor.

hes referring to people being o.k with you just taking their things and family heirlooms, not evena grunt of protest

[dunnothisguy]

Originally posted by BuzzardBee:

It's a freaking game, for crying out loud. How else are you to get the money you need to buy the stuff you must for the game? Contracts don't pay nearly enough to sustain you, let alone pay for all those Gwent cards, crafting costs and repairs.

All RPGs have a looting system. Get over it.

You want real immersion? Find someone to build you a time machine and really go back to that era. See how long you survive while grasping tight to your immersion factor.

That's half-assed argument, at best. Games can be good, and can be bad. Games have design flaws. Witcher 3's looting system clearly is one big loophole in the whole its mechanics. Here is one example it brings its stupidigy to an extreme: I'm agruing with an NPC about my reward for a contract. Here is totally stubborn about even cutting the priced down by a couple of coins (the whole reward is about 20 coins), as if his life depends on it. Then I open his chests and loot 3 times more (in monetary value loot) out of it, without even a word of protest from him. This simply doesn't make any sense. In the middle of war zone, nobody would store any kind of valualbes like that, they would bury it in their yard as deep as possible. Not to say a guy that stingy he'll die for a couple of coins. What's even point in that behavior of his, saving him a couple of coins, when then he loses tons of money and doesn't care about it, neither Geralt gets any kind of bad fame for robbing a peasant. That's just bad craftsmanship on par of studio's gamedesigner(s).

Game's quality also consists of a bunch of factors, including how well-built and immesrive its game world, how long you can forget about the fact it's not real. Games are not just about game mechanics, never were. And Witcher (both books and game) clrearly tries to build a bealivable world. Yet at the same time it somehow manages to present looting system which even worse done than in the Divinity series, which don't even try to do something like that, going more "Pratchet-style fantasy on steroids" way.

[Twelvefield]

Originally posted by Damián:

This is not Skyrim world

In Skyrim if the owner sees you steal their stuff, it raises the alarm. However in Skyrim if you take a pot and place it over the owner's head, they won't see you anymore and you can loot all you want.

Looting is an old videogame trope from the beforetime (pre year 2000) that should have been written out existence decades ago, but it continues to be with us just like you can go in to offices these days and find fax machines.

[v0]

Originally posted by Mori:

Originally posted by LW:

Meh it's just a looting mechanic sure, does it break immersion?
Yeah it does, hence why i simply don't do it, it is also classified as stealing if you try it in front of the guards but yeah you can walk into a peasents house and rob him blind.

Yea, you can pretend, you can play it in your head as if you actually just bought it from them etc. But those are not excuses for bad game system. Most of notorious RPG games of recent years were able to provide you some public order system, preventing you from commiting outrageous stuff, or at least providing some tradeoffs if you'll choose to be asocial type. Like, it's done particularily good in Elders Scrolls and Divinity series. And in Witcher 3, which is regarded as one of the best games of last years, there is almost NONE. I can even barge into peasant's house and slay all his family - and I don't see (so far) how it actually can backfire on me. Yes, medieval times were harsh, but such deeds won't be tolerated anyway, and your bad fame would eventually start to haunt you throughout the land.

could be worse. like he could actually aid you in rummaging and pimp his daughter too as icing on cake... just saying :p