It still bothers me what CDPR did to Redania

[♠ Radovid V. ♠]

*SPOILERS*
Is it only me or do I have a feeling that Redania, witch hunters and Radovid were meant to be the "good guys" and then developers suddenly changed their mind. They put insulting chat options to all redanian soldiers, made Radovid crazy and released clearly an unfinished side quest "Reasons of State".
I will make some quick points here how I came up to this theory :

1.Witch hunter Graden

→ the only witch hunter early in the story that has been pretty polite + from journal entry :"Graden was one of the witch hunters in King Radovid's service. Unlike a great many of his comrades, he came across as a level-headed fellow, one free of prejudice, at least in his dealings with witchers."

2. Radovids behaviour in W2

→ good ruler, well-informed, well-educated even in terms of magic ( he knew what the dream necromancy is) but also cunning and cruel. Not even a sign of insanity.
Before you jump in on me saying that he massacred all the mages in Loc Muinne, remember what Roche said :"Radovid and all the other kings are already preparing the pyres for witches." Seems like every other Northern ruler was doing it too.

3. Redanian solders quotes in W2

→ very polite in comparison to W3. For example :"Oh Hey there!", "It's the White Wolf!", "The White Wolf, I can't believe it!","Greetings, whoever you are.".... these are from speaking with random soldiers in Redanian Quarter in W2.

4. Sudden whitewashing of Nilfgaard

→ there is a lot of to be explained here, just read the books.

5. Cut content with Iorveth and Saskia

→ CDPR had planned a quest where these 2 would have been introduced and it would have shown the negative impact of Nilfgaard's rule in Velen (Catriona plague). Later Geralt would have to force Roche and Iorveth to co-op together which sounds really cool, I do not know why this whole quest has been cut away from the game.

6. Reasons of State

→ I think everybody's reaction after finishing it was: "Well.. this is it? This is all?? And why the hell Dijkstra acted so stupid and OOC??!" It's clearly unfinished and reworked in a rush.

Feel free to share your thoughts and opinions here.

[GhostyBoi69]

Radovid and his soldiers changed in Witcher 3 because Redania is under threat from Nilfgaard. Radovid became excessively paranoid about possible plots to kill him, espcially from sorceresses (who already proved they were willing and capable of doing so). The discovery of the Lodge and the invasion from Nilfgaard just pushed him over the edge. Witch hunters and soldier attitudes were just an extension of that paranoia and cruelty. Witchers like Geralt could be spies for Nilfgaard or helping the mages or scoietal in some capacity.


You could also argue that Radovid, despite being insane, had a well thought out idea behind the persecution of mages. They served as an excellent scapegoat for the food shortages, Nilfgaardian military victories, and also Redania's desire to annex Novigrad. If Geralt rescues the mages from Novigrad, the witcher hunters use non-humans as the new scapegoat for the city's miseries. It's also no secret that Radovid has always hated sorceresses, especially Phillpa. Reading through the books gave context to his genocidal turn in Witcher 3 for me.


I do agree that Reasons of State felt rushed and wasn't particulary satisfying, but I didn't hate it either. I did dislike Dijkstra's turn to "evil" - it was unexpected and CDPR could've chosen some other character to fulfill that role as Dijkstra's story was finished in the book series anyways. IMO, the Skellige leadership quest line more than made up for it though.

[♠ Radovid V. ♠]

Originally posted by BuzzardBee:

What explanation are you hoping for here? They bought the rights to make games from this source material and they can do what they like with it, go off in any direction they choose. It's their right.

I am not denying their rights mate. Hell, they could've even made Geralt blond-haired, they could've just done anything they wanted.
I made this thread just to point out and ask people for their opinions whether they noticed the changes and their thoughts about it. Nothing more, nothing less :)

[♠ Radovid V. ♠]

Originally posted by BuzzardBee:

What explanation are you hoping for here? They bought the rights to make games from this source material and they can do what they like with it, go off in any direction they choose. It's their right.

As for Dijkstra, I think everyone keeps forgetting that he's Redania first and foremost. He was only going along with the pact for Temeria's freedom because it meant the elimination of Radovid -- something he could not do on his own.

But he had been plotting his own agenda from the start. He was not being compassionate in his efforts in helping the mages flee Novigrad and get to Kovir safely. He was securing what he hoped would be allies in the future, once he gained chancellorship and ruled Redania.

All he ever wanted was to secure Redania's freedom and the downfall of Nilfgaard. If he could then bring the rest of the North under Redania's banner, all the better. He didn't suddenly turn "evil". He was just doing what HE felt was best.

Yes I agree and I really understand why Dijkstra acted they way he did. By calling him "stupid" at that moment, I meant his approach. Why would he threaten Geralt's friends in front of him and not just poisoned the cups for example? He even stated that he won't help Geralt at Kaer Morhen because he is not a fighter, same reason why Thaler and him stayed out of fighting Radovid.

[Arlen]

Originally posted by acc2420:

Radovid and his soldiers changed in Witcher 3 because Redania is under threat from Nilfgaard. Radovid became excessively paranoid about possible plots to kill him, espcially from sorceresses (who already proved they were willing and capable of doing so). The discovery of the Lodge and the invasion from Nilfgaard just pushed him over the edge. Witch hunters and soldier attitudes were just an extension of that paranoia and cruelty. Witchers like Geralt could be spies for Nilfgaard or helping the mages or scoietal in some capacity.


You could also argue that Radovid, despite being insane, had a well thought out idea behind the persecution of mages. They served as an excellent scapegoat for the food shortages, Nilfgaardian military victories, and also Redania's desire to annex Novigrad. If Geralt rescues the mages from Novigrad, the witcher hunters use non-humans as the new scapegoat for the city's miseries. It's also no secret that Radovid has always hated sorceresses, especially Phillpa. Reading through the books gave context to his genocidal turn in Witcher 3 for me.


I do agree that Reasons of State felt rushed and wasn't particulary satisfying, but I didn't hate it either. I did dislike Dijkstra's turn to "evil" - it was unexpected and CDPR could've chosen some other character to fulfill that role as Dijkstra's story was finished in the book series anyways. IMO, the Skellige leadership quest line more than made up for it though.

I agree with this assesment. and the consequences of the choices at the end of the game left a sour taste in my mouth. I will say, I kinda like Dijkstra, he is a realist, unlike Roche, who is an idealist in this game. Also have a fondness for Thaler, everyone has that one friend, or family member, who just doesn't care if you disapprove of their colorful language.

[STOPCHEMTRAILS]

Originally posted by acc2420:

Radovid and his soldiers changed in Witcher 3 because Redania is under threat from Nilfgaard. Radovid became excessively paranoid about possible plots to kill him, espcially from sorceresses (who already proved they were willing and capable of doing so). The discovery of the Lodge and the invasion from Nilfgaard just pushed him over the edge. Witch hunters and soldier attitudes were just an extension of that paranoia and cruelty. Witchers like Geralt could be spies for Nilfgaard or helping the mages or scoietal in some capacity.


You could also argue that Radovid, despite being insane, had a well thought out idea behind the persecution of mages. They served as an excellent scapegoat for the food shortages, Nilfgaardian military victories, and also Redania's desire to annex Novigrad. If Geralt rescues the mages from Novigrad, the witcher hunters use non-humans as the new scapegoat for the city's miseries. It's also no secret that Radovid has always hated sorceresses, especially Phillpa. Reading through the books gave context to his genocidal turn in Witcher 3 for me.


I do agree that Reasons of State felt rushed and wasn't particulary satisfying, but I didn't hate it either. I did dislike Dijkstra's turn to "evil" - it was unexpected and CDPR could've chosen some other character to fulfill that role as Dijkstra's story was finished in the book series anyways. IMO, the Skellige leadership quest line more than made up for it though.

Dijkstra never turned evil he was always a patriot with spy background and he could do anything for the good of his kingdom including torture,beheadings,hiring assassins but It was never personal strictly politic business to unite north kingdoms under one banner against nilfgaard and making redania his kingdom the powerhouse/capital
I chose the dijkstra over stupid idealist rogue roche but I have to agree game sort of tried to make dijkstra look a bit evil by threatening witcher's companions

[fitzifatz]

What do you mean by whitewashing of Nilfgaard? Have not read the books, sorry.
Nilfgaardians not being white would shed a new light on the screeching over a potentially black Ciri in the series.

[♠ Radovid V. ♠]

Originally posted by fitzifatz:

What do you mean by whitewashing of Nilfgaard? Have not read the books, sorry.
Nilfgaardians not being white would shed a new light on the screeching over a potentially black Ciri in the series.

“Whitewashing” = ignoring the bad signs and altering something bad to good and positive.
Nilfgaard were the ‘bad guys’ in books. They have slavery, massacred a lot of citizens on conquered territories, established pogroms on nonhumans, mages are being torn apart by horses on squares for innapropriate behaviour, they start wars unprovoked. And btw, Emhyr slaughtered a whole city just to capture Ciri and make a child with her - yes, with his daughter. Before that, he ordered Geralt and Yennefer executed. Luckily he changed his mind and let Ciri, Geralt and Yennefer go.
You do have some minor signs of that in game, you can listen to villagers saying that Nilfgaardians brought free food to a village which was poisoned in order to vipe out local settlers.

[GoreTiger]

There was nothing actually evil About what Dijkstra did.

Like he said, Him and Radovid's father spent 20 years building up Redania into the Pinnicle of civilization in the Northern Realms, And in W3 he's given two options:

1. Watch Nilfgaard take over Redania through Roche's pact.

2. Watch Radovid tear everything he worked on apart.

So he says " **** that" and Tries to take back control. And if it wasn't for the Heavy price I'd have to pay, I would of let him too. Because his ending is the best we're given in-game.

[Goran]

Radovid = insane leader in a defensive position who hates witchers, mages, elves, dwarfs and so on... I compare him with Stalin or Hitler in WW2. He for me represents more the east european dictatorship before WW2. His witch hunters remember me of soviet agents who ran around and killed everyone who was against communism.

Nilfgard : Imperialistic law & order superpower. You could compare them with Great Britain in the 19th century. The Nilfgardians are not that insane like Radovid but they want to enlight the world with their civilisation while stealing all resources from the nations they took over just like the english did in the time of imperialism.

For most people Redania is the modern Poland. But not for me. Temeria is for me the Poland of world war 2 between two superpowers and unable to defend itself.

The mages represent the members of the former european monarchies. Dukes, Barons, knights...lower monarchs. They also were adviser of kings in medieval europe but as monarchy in eastern europe died after world war 1 and the communists took over, the communist agents (witch hunters) started to kill every former monarch. With other words every person of the former elites including their children. Most of the russian (redanian) monarchs ran to the west (France and GB) and their children and grand children live there till today (In western europe / Nilfgard). Just like in the game.

Peace

[Arlen]

Originally posted by Darkslav:

Radovid = insane leader in a defensive position who hates witchers, mages, elves, dwarfs and so on... I compare him with Stalin or Hitler in WW2. He for me represents more the east european dictatorship before WW2. His witch hunters remember me of soviet agents who ran around and killed everyone who was against communism.

Nilfgard : Imperialistic law & order superpower. You could compare them with Great Britain in the 19th century. The Nilfgardians are not that insane like Radovid but they want to enlight the world with their civilisation while stealing all resources from the nations they took over just like the english did in the time of imperialism.

For most people Redania is the modern Poland. But not for me. Temeria is for me the Poland of world war 2 between two superpowers and unable to defend itself.

The mages represent the members of the former european monarchies. Dukes, Barons, knights...lower monarchs. They also were adviser of kings in medieval europe but as monarchy in eastern europe died after world war 1 and the communists took over, the communist agents (witch hunters) started to kill every former monarch. With other words every person of the former elites including their children. Most of the russian (redanian) monarchs ran to the west (France and GB) and their children and grand children live there till today (In western europe / Nilfgard). Just like in the game.

Peace

Can understand that viewpoint, but I liken Nilfgard as the analogy to the USSR, large superpower gobbling up smaller, or thrown in turmoil countries, exploiting the resources, executing undesirables (elves, dwarves,mages, witchers, political dissenters), Mind you - all the turmoil was created by Nilfgardian imperialism - all the kings were assasinated by Nilfgardian espionage.

Radovid is the analogy to Hitler, insane leader scapegoating magic users for the delusions and paranoia that he himself inflicted upon his country.

temeria - the analogy to france, cannot win a conflict without the help of others.

So yeah, I supported Dyjkstra, knowing that Roche and temeria was going to pay a heavy price.

Bottom line up front - yeah Temeria gets autonomy, but is still a vassal state of Nilfgard, and all the surrounding countries are Nilfgard in that ending.

In Dyjkstras ending, Nilfgard loses, and the north remains somewhat independant.

The adage "Die on your feet, facing your enemy, or live on your knees fearing the blade in the dark" applies.

[Arlen]

Originally posted by ;1732088458069999987:

2 dummies above who doesnt know anything about history and falsely tries to find historical equilavents to everything in a fantasy game/novel

and your point being? we can put anything we want to this, this is based upon eastern European lore and mythology, by a contemporary Author, who lives in Poland, - the anology is kind of hard to miss, especially about Nilfgard, and Radovid. but hey, you do you Boo, and just let us have a discussion.

BTW - I would love to hear your "correct" version of history, seeing as you so blithely dismissed our viewpoints.

[GoreTiger]

Originally posted by Darkslav:

Radovid = insane leader in a defensive position who hates witchers, mages, elves, dwarfs and so on... I compare him with Stalin or Hitler in WW2. He for me represents more the east european dictatorship before WW2. His witch hunters remember me of soviet agents who ran around and killed everyone who was against communism.

Nilfgard : Imperialistic law & order superpower. You could compare them with Great Britain in the 19th century. The Nilfgardians are not that insane like Radovid but they want to enlight the world with their civilisation while stealing all resources from the nations they took over just like the english did in the time of imperialism.

For most people Redania is the modern Poland. But not for me. Temeria is for me the Poland of world war 2 between two superpowers and unable to defend itself.

The mages represent the members of the former european monarchies. Dukes, Barons, knights...lower monarchs. They also were adviser of kings in medieval europe but as monarchy in eastern europe died after world war 1 and the communists took over, the communist agents (witch hunters) started to kill every former monarch. With other words every person of the former elites including their children. Most of the russian (redanian) monarchs ran to the west (France and GB) and their children and grand children live there till today (In western europe / Nilfgard). Just like in the game.

Peace

Redania is Poland. Nilfgard is Imperialistic Germany. Skellige would Be ether Britain or Finland. Kovirr is likely Sweden. Keadwin is Likely Romania.

[♠ Radovid V. ♠]

Originally posted by BuzzardBee:

Originally posted by ♠ Radovid V. The Stern ♠:

*SPOILERS*
Is it only me or do I have a feeling that Redania, witch hunters and Radovid were meant to be the "good guys" and then developers suddenly changed their mind. They put insulting chat options to all redanian soldiers, made Radovid crazy and released clearly an unfinished side quest "Reasons of State".

In what rational universe would any group of armed thugs hellbent on exterminating any segment of the population be considered the "good guys"?

And how exactly is Reason of State unfinished??

I did not say they ARE the good guys, but they probably MEANT TO BE the good guys, that maybe CDPR WANTED Redania to be the good side at the begining and later changed their mind. I've already explained why in those points in topic.

Reason of state → side quest that looks like it was made in rush, especially the poor dialogue option or rather no option at all tbh between Dijktra and Roche. That whole situation was really speeded up without even giving us an option to negotiate and try to make Roche and Dijkstra coop somehow. And eventually after the quest is done, there are literally no consequences, not Radovid funeral or grave atleast, everyone acts like Radovid still lives, especially random NPCs who talk about him. CDPR should have at least put 1 dialogue between peasants mentioning Radovids death....

[Goran]

Originally posted by ♠ Radovid V. The Stern ♠:

Originally posted by BuzzardBee:

In what rational universe would any group of armed thugs hellbent on exterminating any segment of the population be considered the "good guys"?

And how exactly is Reason of State unfinished??

I did not say they ARE the good guys, but they probably MEANT TO BE the good guys, that maybe CDPR WANTED Redania to be the good side at the begining and later changed their mind. I've already explained why in those points in topic.

Reason of state → side quest that looks like it was made in rush, especially the poor dialogue option or rather no option at all tbh between Dijktra and Roche. That whole situation was really speeded up without even giving us an option to negotiate and try to make Roche and Dijkstra coop somehow. And eventually after the quest is done, there are literally no consequences, not Radovid funeral or grave atleast, everyone acts like Radovid still lives, especially random NPCs who talk about him. CDPR should have at least put 1 dialogue between peasants mentioning Radovids death....

I dont think CDPR wanted any side to be the good one. Every side and every char in this game have their good and bad sides. This is how the game is build from the contract quests up to the huge political quests.

[♠ Radovid V. ♠]

Originally posted by Darkslav:

I dont think CDPR wanted any side to be the good one. Every side and every char in this game have their good and bad sides. This is how the game is build from the contract quests up to the huge political quests.

What´s good about Radovid winning? :D