Lamberts quest - following the thread

[DaniTheHero]

Did you spare or kill Jad Karradin?

It feels like he's remorse is fake but he is telling the truth, i find it hard to just murder him in cold blood just because lambret said so, since there's proof lacking in either direction.

[l'homme rouge]

aiden is from cat school jad karedin is also.so imo aiden is not entirely innocent one. i let jaredin live

[DaniTheHero]

Originally posted by BuzzardBee:

Spared. Hammond has a letter than can be found on his body that pretty clearly shows he contacted Karadin regarding an illegal smuggling operation and was turned down. Karadin stated plainly in the letter that he wanted nothing more to do with that life and wished him well but not to contact him again.

Karadin was no saint and had done plenty bad in his past. Was he responsible for Lambert's friend's death? Yes. Did he pull the trigger, so to speak? No, I don't believe so. That female elf is drinking herself to death and it isn't because she's a lush. It's her way of dealing with her conscience. She killed the witcher by accident.

You have to remember that we only have Lambert's word for what happened during that incident and he never tells Geralt where he got his information from. All that he knows is that his friend, Aiden, was hired to lift a curse from a duke's daughter. And that some others plotted to prevent him from lifting that curse by hiring assassins to kill his friend.

The details he presented included that Karadin, the leader of these assassins, dealt the killing blow. But how would Lambert know of any of this? You might hear rumors but even as Geralt pointed out, witchers from the Cat School had a pretty bad reputation to begin with. This would fit Karadin and his men since Karadin is a witcher from the Cat School but it doesn't jibe with what Lambert says of Aiden. Moving on...

In talking with Vienne, the female elf, is the first to state that Karadin has changed, broken with his former mates. She has no contact with any of them but knows that Selyse is in Tretogor and Hammond is in Skellige. Lambert's already killed Lund, the supervisor who offered the contract on the ekimmara. By all indications, she was thrown out of the band after she killed Aiden. She claims Karadin will kill both Lambert and Geralt if she try to find him, yet this is far from what actually happens when they do.

Karadin is well aware that they have been asking questions about him. He knows of Lund's death and possibly Selyse's and Vienne's too (if Lambert killed her at the tavern). Yet he doesn't do anything to defend himself. He waits for them to find him. Allows them into his home. Sends away his guards to speak with them alone.

This is a man who has changed and is trying to atone for his past sins. It may be as simple as the fact that Aiden was a fellow member from the Cat School. Aiden had already proven he had difficulty completing contracts on his own. He even traveled and worked with Lambert which is highly unusual for witchers since they work and travel alone on the Path. That he chose to align himself with Lambert could mean he no longer trusted himself to do "honest" work or that he was so rusty he couldn't do it alone. Whatever the case, that he found himself with the contract to lift the curse from the duke's daughter alone instead of working with Lambert is telling in a way.

He'd failed yet again and, rather oddly, had already spent the money given to him upfront for the contract. Why didn't Lambert question this issue? Since when are witcher pay before a job is completed and without presenting proof that the job was done? And, more importantly, who in their right mind would hire someone from the Cat School to do a contract such as this with their sullied reputation? There are a lot of unanswered questions here, and more to the matter, questions Lambert doesn't even seem willing to ask in the first place.

Karadin's account of what happened makes sense. Aiden failed to remove the curse. His employer wanted the money returned for a job undone but he'd already spent it. When confronted, he responded aggressively. When they tried to take his swords as payments, he attacked. Karadin did not issue an order to kill Aiden. I believe this because of the circumstances. If they'd been hired to kill Aiden, there would have been no discussion about the money whatsoever. Aiden would be dead, the job would be done, and all would have moved on.

Yet this did not happen. Vienne more than likely jumped the gun and accidentally killed Aiden while they were arguing about his weapons. Naturally Aiden would refuse to hand them over but I'm guessing that might have been Karadin's idea. Both being from the Cat School, he was most likely reluctant to kill a fellow witcher. This has precedence in the game lore as both Letho and Geralt has proven relucatant to kill each other in the past because they were both witchers, despite being from different schools. Being from the same school, Karadin most likely tried to find a solution that might appease his employer: obtain Aiden's swords, sell them and return the money to end the matter and spare Aiden's life.

But since Vienne's actions took that option out of the equation, she was turned out from the group and Karadin disbanded it altogether before deciding he'd had enough of that life and wanted to change everything about himself. He found a good woman and married her, taking in her two children and raising them as his own. He became a businessman and sought to support various charities, all in effort to repent for his sins. While Vienne drowns herself in beer for her own.

Lund got a job and was probably trying to live life quietly while Selyse opened a brothel and Hammond continued to deal in slavery.

What's most troubling though is what Geralt tells Lambert after dealing with Hammond in Skellige. He says that Karadin lives in Novigrad and that he never severed ties with Hammond, that they're actually in business together. This is completely contradictory to what that letter states. Was this a major mistake on the part of the devs? Most likely. The letter stated:

Hammond

Thought I made it clear during our last face-to-face talk. I don't want to keep in touch with you, and I especially don't want to do any business with you. I've no doubt the enterprise you proposed would be profitable. Nevertheless, to speak colloquially: count me out.

There are plenty of other potential buyers in Novigrad: goldsmiths, jewelers and merchants dealing in luxury goods, for starters. I don't want to get involved.

Whatever you decide, I wish you well with it. Treat this letter as our final farewell.

Karadin.

Yet Geralt concludes from this letter that they're still in touch with each other, still in business with one another and that they've never severed ties?? I hope like hell he's a better witcher than that because nothing in the letter indicates any of that. They have been in touch, yes, but the tone of the letter makes it clear that Hammond has been pursuing Karadin for the purposes of his business venture, which Karadin has equally made clear he wants no part of. But that's not what Geralt tells Lambert. Add to that, what Lambert tells him of what he's learned:

Lambert: "Learned something, too -- he trades in, uh, live goods on the sly. Owns a ship called the Pearl of the Coast -- runs between here and Skellige. Changed his name, too, to Roland Treugger, who officially is a respected Novigrad trader and philanthropist. Has a residence in Gildorf."

Now, unless he specifically learned that Treugger is dealing in slavery, "live goods" could mean anything and we don't know how much of an emphasis can or should be placed on the "on the sly" part since we only have Lambert's account to go on.

My main points are that Lambert says with complete certainty that Karadin was the one who killed Aiden. How would he know this if he were not present? Supposedly only Karadin and his crew and Aiden were there. He's only just now seeking them all out and so far only Vienne admitted to killing Aiden, although in a roundabout way, which Karadin seemed to confirm when he was questioned later on. Neither Lambert nor Geralt asked Lund or Hammond who dealt the killing blow and we have no idea what Lambert asked of Selyse since we did not see their encounter. So where did he get that information from?

If Karadin is lying, it would have been far easier for him to try and kill Geralt and Lambert, especially when they split up to continue their search for him. Why not do that if they're asking too many questions? If he had changed, however, he may see this as an opportunity to settle matters another way. To be judged and sentenced by his own kind for his sins. Let them decide his fate, which explains why he chose to meet them alone after sending his guards away with his family.

We have no concrete proof that he is lying about anything. We only have Lambert's word for much of this and that's questionable at best. He presents suppositon and rumor as facts. He's hot-headed and quick to judge. That's always been his way. But things don't add up where Aiden is concerned. If they were traveling together and he'd come upon a contract that he couldn't handle alone, why not send for Lambert and ask for his help? In trying to do it alone, things definitely went wrong or else he would have lifted the curse, despite the actions of those that hired the assassins to stop him. Why would it have taken that long to complete?

And if Karadin had been there solely to kill him, why bother talking about money at all? They could have killed him, taken his swords and had a double-pay day by selling them and keeping the cash, as well as their pay for the assassination. Yet this did not happen. His account makes much more sense than Lambert's and Lambert was not there. He wasn't there for any part of it. So all he has to go on is what he believes happened and whatever tidbits he's heard from whatever sources he's culled. Yet none of them could have been firsthand accounts of the events.

I let Karadin live. If Lambert wants revenge so badly, he can go back and get it on his own. It wasn't for me to decide.

Is there some kind of consiquence for letting him live? Lambert seems only to be angry the first few minutues and then it was never mentioned again.

[DarkInvader]

I spared him too.

I don't feel like I should just assassinate people as a Witcher. Especially not for a character like Lambert.

[l'homme rouge]

Originally posted by BuzzardBee:

Spared. Hammond has a letter than can be found on his body that pretty clearly shows he contacted Karadin regarding an illegal smuggling operation and was turned down. Karadin stated plainly in the letter that he wanted nothing more to do with that life and wished him well but not to contact him again.

Karadin was no saint and had done plenty bad in his past. Was he responsible for Lambert's friend's death? Yes. Did he pull the trigger, so to speak? No, I don't believe so. That female elf is drinking herself to death and it isn't because she's a lush. It's her way of dealing with her conscience. She killed the witcher by accident.

You have to remember that we only have Lambert's word for what happened during that incident and he never tells Geralt where he got his information from. All that he knows is that his friend, Aiden, was hired to lift a curse from a duke's daughter. And that some others plotted to prevent him from lifting that curse by hiring assassins to kill his friend.

The details he presented included that Karadin, the leader of these assassins, dealt the killing blow. But how would Lambert know of any of this? You might hear rumors but even as Geralt pointed out, witchers from the Cat School had a pretty bad reputation to begin with. This would fit Karadin and his men since Karadin is a witcher from the Cat School but it doesn't jibe with what Lambert says of Aiden. Moving on...

In talking with Vienne, the female elf, is the first to state that Karadin has changed, broken with his former mates. She has no contact with any of them but knows that Selyse is in Tretogor and Hammond is in Skellige. Lambert's already killed Lund, the supervisor who offered the contract on the ekimmara. By all indications, she was thrown out of the band after she killed Aiden. She claims Karadin will kill both Lambert and Geralt if she try to find him, yet this is far from what actually happens when they do.

Karadin is well aware that they have been asking questions about him. He knows of Lund's death and possibly Selyse's and Vienne's too (if Lambert killed her at the tavern). Yet he doesn't do anything to defend himself. He waits for them to find him. Allows them into his home. Sends away his guards to speak with them alone.

This is a man who has changed and is trying to atone for his past sins. It may be as simple as the fact that Aiden was a fellow member from the Cat School. Aiden had already proven he had difficulty completing contracts on his own. He even traveled and worked with Lambert which is highly unusual for witchers since they work and travel alone on the Path. That he chose to align himself with Lambert could mean he no longer trusted himself to do "honest" work or that he was so rusty he couldn't do it alone. Whatever the case, that he found himself with the contract to lift the curse from the duke's daughter alone instead of working with Lambert is telling in a way.

He'd failed yet again and, rather oddly, had already spent the money given to him upfront for the contract. Why didn't Lambert question this issue? Since when are witcher pay before a job is completed and without presenting proof that the job was done? And, more importantly, who in their right mind would hire someone from the Cat School to do a contract such as this with their sullied reputation? There are a lot of unanswered questions here, and more to the matter, questions Lambert doesn't even seem willing to ask in the first place.

Karadin's account of what happened makes sense. Aiden failed to remove the curse. His employer wanted the money returned for a job undone but he'd already spent it. When confronted, he responded aggressively. When they tried to take his swords as payments, he attacked. Karadin did not issue an order to kill Aiden. I believe this because of the circumstances. If they'd been hired to kill Aiden, there would have been no discussion about the money whatsoever. Aiden would be dead, the job would be done, and all would have moved on.

Yet this did not happen. Vienne more than likely jumped the gun and accidentally killed Aiden while they were arguing about his weapons. Naturally Aiden would refuse to hand them over but I'm guessing that might have been Karadin's idea. Both being from the Cat School, he was most likely reluctant to kill a fellow witcher. This has precedence in the game lore as both Letho and Geralt has proven relucatant to kill each other in the past because they were both witchers, despite being from different schools. Being from the same school, Karadin most likely tried to find a solution that might appease his employer: obtain Aiden's swords, sell them and return the money to end the matter and spare Aiden's life.

But since Vienne's actions took that option out of the equation, she was turned out from the group and Karadin disbanded it altogether before deciding he'd had enough of that life and wanted to change everything about himself. He found a good woman and married her, taking in her two children and raising them as his own. He became a businessman and sought to support various charities, all in effort to repent for his sins. While Vienne drowns herself in beer for her own.

Lund got a job and was probably trying to live life quietly while Selyse opened a brothel and Hammond continued to deal in slavery.

What's most troubling though is what Geralt tells Lambert after dealing with Hammond in Skellige. He says that Karadin lives in Novigrad and that he never severed ties with Hammond, that they're actually in business together. This is completely contradictory to what that letter states. Was this a major mistake on the part of the devs? Most likely. The letter stated:

Hammond

Thought I made it clear during our last face-to-face talk. I don't want to keep in touch with you, and I especially don't want to do any business with you. I've no doubt the enterprise you proposed would be profitable. Nevertheless, to speak colloquially: count me out.

There are plenty of other potential buyers in Novigrad: goldsmiths, jewelers and merchants dealing in luxury goods, for starters. I don't want to get involved.

Whatever you decide, I wish you well with it. Treat this letter as our final farewell.

Karadin.

Yet Geralt concludes from this letter that they're still in touch with each other, still in business with one another and that they've never severed ties?? I hope like hell he's a better witcher than that because nothing in the letter indicates any of that. They have been in touch, yes, but the tone of the letter makes it clear that Hammond has been pursuing Karadin for the purposes of his business venture, which Karadin has equally made clear he wants no part of. But that's not what Geralt tells Lambert. Add to that, what Lambert tells him of what he's learned:

Lambert: "Learned something, too -- he trades in, uh, live goods on the sly. Owns a ship called the Pearl of the Coast -- runs between here and Skellige. Changed his name, too, to Roland Treugger, who officially is a respected Novigrad trader and philanthropist. Has a residence in Gildorf."

Now, unless he specifically learned that Treugger is dealing in slavery, "live goods" could mean anything and we don't know how much of an emphasis can or should be placed on the "on the sly" part since we only have Lambert's account to go on.

My main points are that Lambert says with complete certainty that Karadin was the one who killed Aiden. How would he know this if he were not present? Supposedly only Karadin and his crew and Aiden were there. He's only just now seeking them all out and so far only Vienne admitted to killing Aiden, although in a roundabout way, which Karadin seemed to confirm when he was questioned later on. Neither Lambert nor Geralt asked Lund or Hammond who dealt the killing blow and we have no idea what Lambert asked of Selyse since we did not see their encounter. So where did he get that information from?

If Karadin is lying, it would have been far easier for him to try and kill Geralt and Lambert, especially when they split up to continue their search for him. Why not do that if they're asking too many questions? If he had changed, however, he may see this as an opportunity to settle matters another way. To be judged and sentenced by his own kind for his sins. Let them decide his fate, which explains why he chose to meet them alone after sending his guards away with his family.

We have no concrete proof that he is lying about anything. We only have Lambert's word for much of this and that's questionable at best. He presents suppositon and rumor as facts. He's hot-headed and quick to judge. That's always been his way. But things don't add up where Aiden is concerned. If they were traveling together and he'd come upon a contract that he couldn't handle alone, why not send for Lambert and ask for his help? In trying to do it alone, things definitely went wrong or else he would have lifted the curse, despite the actions of those that hired the assassins to stop him. Why would it have taken that long to complete?

And if Karadin had been there solely to kill him, why bother talking about money at all? They could have killed him, taken his swords and had a double-pay day by selling them and keeping the cash, as well as their pay for the assassination. Yet this did not happen. His account makes much more sense than Lambert's and Lambert was not there. He wasn't there for any part of it. So all he has to go on is what he believes happened and whatever tidbits he's heard from whatever sources he's culled. Yet none of them could have been firsthand accounts of the events.

I let Karadin live. If Lambert wants revenge so badly, he can go back and get it on his own. It wasn't for me to decide.

dude this answer is great :D

[l'homme rouge]

Originally posted by DarkInvader:

I spared him too.

I don't feel like I should just assassinate people as a Witcher. Especially not for a character like Lambert.

whats wrong with lambert? he is a good guy

[v0]

Well I dont think I'd join in endeavour like this based on such flimsy evidence even for best of friends but this's roleplaying game so question more like what your Geralt'd do. Assuming one keeps Geralt and self different ;)

[Mika]

spared. He regretted it. If he lied, I'd take Lambert with me and slice his little head off.