Finally a correct review of this game was written!

[Genghis Chron]

Not by me, since I don't like this MMO style MOBA type game, but it's interesting and well written.
http://www.rpgcodex.net/content.php?id=9867

"Let’s get one thing straight. When Obsidian were touting how this was their “ultimate” game, over which they’d finally have “full creative jurisdiction” that wouldn’t be “blocked by publishers”, I had many things in mind. I had a vision of another Mask of the Betrayer, I thought of a throwback to Icewind Dale, I also hoped for something completely new. What I got instead was a very badly done cargo-cult clone of Baldur’s Gate 1 that mindlessly copies all its flaws while actually dropping the things that made it work, and completely disregarding the 17 years of cRPG history that happened in the meantime. “But Darth Roxor, BG1 wasn’t that much of a good game either, it was only BG2 that was really gud!”, I hear you say. And you are right. Then let me ask you back – why did Obsidian decide to clone BG1 instead of the clearly superior BG2? Why settle for blatant mediocrity instead of aiming for supremacy?

Even further, I don’t know if I could call Pillars of Eternity an outright “bad” game. It’s just painfully generic, with nothing that ever stands out, but I would also say that any sufficiently mediocre game is indistinguishable from a bad one. To be honest, I would say it’s rather insulting that Obsidian, with all their creative freedom for PoE, have decided not to experiment even a little bit. Everything in this game is textbook, safe and derivative, there are no risks involved anywhere, the game practically plays itself with barely any input from the player. The only emotion PoE evoked from me during the 41 hours it took me to finish it was a feeling of ennui that kept telling me, ‘maybe I should play IWD again’. I doubt that should be your objective when you make the ‘ultimate’ IE homage. Obsidian promised the story of PS:T, combat of IWD and the exploration of BG, but somewhere along the road they got confused, and what they gave us instead was the story of BG, the combat of PS:T and the exploration of Gothic 4.

This is literally the worst Obsidian game I’ve played to date. That’s right, I even had more fun with Dungeon Siege 3 - at least it was a fun beat ‘em up, as opposed to this lifeless, uninspired husk. Disappointment, thy name is Pillars of Eternity."

[Gracey Face]

Publicado originalmente por Gregorovitch:

You see you're ... game work.

Except grazes count as hits, for the purpose of applying a debuff anyway, so as long as that 1D100 -50 ends up at 65+ (ie as close as makes no difference a 50%) then you are being debuffed. Further from that because you are never attacked by purely one thing, you are being debuffed in other ways, meaning you are generally less defensive than that (though ideally the enemy is also hampered), and even if you are not the duration of the effect is being lowered to a second or so by the defence prayer, but you are being hit constantly and having it reapplied, so it counts for further attacks.

You cant add mirror image to that, or at least not really (multiple boosts to the same thing do not stack except for fringe exceptions ie arcane veil, MI's 30 vs 25 isnt worth the cast). But anyway, LDI + AV = 130-150 deflection. Sounds pretty decent. Except it is 130-150 deflection for 10 seconds, 75 of which is ignored by certain attacks (firearms most notably). This is going up against enemies which prettymuch have 80-100 ACC across the board, so you are in general looking at a ~50% of being hit, which means you die quickly because grazes destroy mages. (So many coin flips when you get down to it in this game...) And on top of all of this, the deflection spells do not help your other defences (except for the minor reflex bonus from LDI), so that weakness/paralysis/blindness debuff is still going to proc on you, and then your suddenly even weaker.

So please dont claim you are lying at me so I do not lie to others, it is shameful.


Though, one thing I need to point out to you, you claim that buffing before fights reduces choice, whereas forcing buffs in fights increases choice by limiting options, which is stupid in and of itself, but something you ignore is that not everyone fires off every buff before every battle, so forcing a limited amount of buffs by having them as a combat time tradeoff is meaningless anyway as buffs have always been a playtime trade off.


But anyway, you seem to be having this wierd concept where anyone who points out the problems with the combat system is doing it because "Its too hard." You have tried to fob me off with the same. Thats not the case though, the combat is not hard, spamming AOEs is spamming AOEs at the end of the day. The complaint is that the combat is lacking in a number of ways, not that it is difficult.

[Gregorovitch]

Publicado originalmente por Navel bombardment!:

Publicado originalmente por Gregorovitch:

You see you're ... game work.

Except grazes count as hits, for the purpose of applying a debuff anyway, so as long as that 1D100 -50 ends up at 65+ (ie as close as makes no difference a 50%) then you are being debuffed.

Look you need to do the math. Assuming accuracy equals willpower for a moment, then normally rolling 25-49 results in a graze and 50-99 results in a hit. Apply Prayer against Treachery and now 1-74 will miss, 75-99 results in a graze and only a straight 100 results in a hit. Additionally Prayer against Treachery halves the duration of a charm effect. So the result is 25% chance of a graze resulting in charm of 25% normal duration and a 1% chance of a hit at 50% normal duration. I have no idea where you are getting this 65% from.

Publicado originalmente por Navel bombardment!:

You cant add mirror image to that, or at least not really (multiple boosts to the same thing do not stack except for fringe exceptions ie arcane veil, MI's 30 vs 25 isnt worth the cast). But anyway, LDI + AV = 130-150 deflection. Sounds pretty decent. Except it is 130-150 deflection for 10 seconds, 75 of which is ignored by certain attacks (firearms most notably). This is going up against enemies which prettymuch have 80-100 ACC across the board, so you are in general looking at a ~50% of being hit, which means you die quickly because grazes destroy mages.

Again do the math. If your wizard's effective delfection is 150 and the enemy's accuracy is 100 then by the same calculation they have only a 25% chance to graze you. If they are also debuffed to buggery (and I always debuff enemies to buggery before trying something like this) they may not be able to even graze you mathematically. For me Aloth has performed attacks like this many times taking barely a scratch often finishing off swathes of foes. It's a matter of precise positioning and timing.

Publicado originalmente por Navel bombardment!:

Though, one thing I need to point out to you, you claim that buffing before fights reduces choice, whereas forcing buffs in fights increases choice by limiting options, which is stupid in and of itself,

No, pre-buffing reduces *options* in combat simply because the buff options have already been taken and are no longer required (unless or until they expire and require refreshing) and so are off the table. Disallowing pre-buffs does not limit *options* it limits *choices* (in terms of the number of choices you have during the course of battle) thereby increasing the significance of each *choice* you make, and so increasing the tactical depth of the combat system. It also makes combat harder per se.

Publicado originalmente por Navel bombardment!:

So please dont claim you are lying at me so I do not lie to others, it is shameful.

WTF is that supposed to mean? Whatever, I'm not accusing you of lying, I'm saying you are mistaken in a lot of things you have said.

[Ancient Toaster]

Everything about this review is spot on. I slogged through this game for 60+ hours and kept hoping to find a hook that would compell me to finish or create another character to run through it again, and I cannot see myself doing that...ever. The story is bland, the characters are suprisingly dry for an Obsidian game, and the combat is atrocious. This real time with pause is just the worst version of this style of cRPG combat I've ever experienced before. There is TOO MUCH PAUSING. The release version of this game was just such a damn disappointment. It should have been a turn based game and it would have solved everything. Divinity: OS Enhanced is a better game because the combat is fun, the story, while light hearted, is compelling enough to play through it, and the game has replay value, unlike this game.

I'd never recommend PoE to any cRPG fan. I'd recommend the Enhanced Edition Baldur's Gate games and Divinity: OS Enhanced over this any day of the week.

[rubyismycat]

u Sir win my id like to slap you round the head with a large wet fish award for that one

[spacecoasttoast]

Um it's not a MMO dude. It's single player and lore and story intesive and very much classis styke RPG elements type of game. Im just now getting started and im getting some very good first impressions. IF you are looking for D2 ot D3 type end game content forget it.

ALthough that would be nice...........its a short game.
Especially as much as they are trying to sell it for compared to VAn Helsing , Balders Gate Enahnced Editions, and Diablo 2/3 it feels half baked with no end game content (adventure mode etc). The price is steep and out of balance compared to those other titles that sell for around the same price point. Maybe half this price since its missing major components of an RPG game that is compared to one of over 10 years ago. It's not bad at all it just over priced unless they intend to add more elements. It does lack replay value. The expansions should be included at no charge. They are asking for tooo much money compared to the other titles that are really good with excellent loot tables as it feels you are rewarded for hard work.

These are my first impressions with hardly any game time. I'm now going to put some effot into the game. But my first glance of character creation and scoping the game out it's got a great start for a single player. I just htink the price is out of balance with the competitiors and what is offered in those titles by comparison.

I have the GoG versoin not STEAM. It was 10 bucks cheaper on the sale and since there's no MP having it on STEAM I didn't care. It seems to be more sticking to the classic of RPG with keeping the characters what they should be. The review disturbs me about the AI. I hope I don't find that to be true now that its November. If its bad AI im not sure if I can tolerate the game play simply repeating the combat. That will bore me to death. I'll update this as I go along. For now despite that review my impresion upon first playing isn't bad its good.

[Berserk Slayer]

The story, setting, characters, artwork and sound are ok to great. I love the idea of the game, I want to love the game, and I am glad Obsidian are trying to do this stuff.

The dungeon crawling and combat have been all but balanced out of existence. It all started out ok but then they started blazing the trail to try and make a fantasy game dull and mediocre. Using magic has all the escapism and excitement of a Saturday job stacking shelves at a supermarket, because they paid attention to a lot of people who think they know so much better how to do combat than BG2 et al did it, but blatantly don't.

I know I'm not the only person who closed this game and started a new game of BG2 instead. Since then I ran through the less excellent IWD 1 and 2 as well - all of these are games with "broken" combat apparently, which is nothing less than comedy.

I had high hopes for sword coast legends after PoE, which doesn't exactly seem like an early adopters' dream, either. I guess I won't be abandoning the older games for a while yet.

[sheep from hell]

Publicado originalmente por lakesideguy:

Um it's not a MMO dude. It's single player and lore and story intesive and very much classis styke RPG elements type of game. Im just now getting started and im getting some very good first impressions. IF you are looking for D2 ot D3 type end game content forget it.

ALthough that would be nice...........its a short game.
Especially as much as they are trying to sell it for compared to VAn Helsing , Balders Gate Enahnced Editions, and Diablo 2/3 it feels half baked with no end game content (adventure mode etc). The price is steep and out of balance compared to those other titles that sell for around the same price point. Maybe half this price since its missing major components of an RPG game that is compared to one of over 10 years ago. It's not bad at all it just over priced unless they intend to add more elements. It does lack replay value. The expansions should be included at no charge. They are asking for tooo much money compared to the other titles that are really good with excellent loot tables as it feels you are rewarded for hard work.

These are my first impressions with hardly any game time. I'm now going to put some effot into the game. But my first glance of character creation and scoping the game out it's got a great start for a single player. I just htink the price is out of balance with the competitiors and what is offered in those titles by comparison.

I have the GoG versoin not STEAM. It was 10 bucks cheaper on the sale and since there's no MP having it on STEAM I didn't care. It seems to be more sticking to the classic of RPG with keeping the characters what they should be. The review disturbs me about the AI. I hope I don't find that to be true now that its November. If its bad AI im not sure if I can tolerate the game play simply repeating the combat. That will bore me to death. I'll update this as I go along. For now despite that review my impresion upon first playing isn't bad its good.

to compare a crpg with a action rpg is totally a sign of mental illness (by the way, to think replay value is the same as endless grind for better items too). and no they didnt try to sell it as an action rpg just because its isometric.

[Multihog]

Publicado originalmente por Berserk Smurf:

I know I'm not the only person who closed this game and started a new game of BG2 instead. Since then I ran through the less excellent IWD 1 and 2 as well - all of these are games with "broken" combat apparently, which is nothing less than comedy.

Nope, I also did the same...

[Strandly]

I like the peeps who pull random acronyms out of their ass and try to make an argument with them and then act all smug about it.

[Ssenkrad_II]

Publicado originalmente por Multihog:

Publicado originalmente por Berserk Smurf:

I know I'm not the only person who closed this game and started a new game of BG2 instead. Since then I ran through the less excellent IWD 1 and 2 as well - all of these are games with "broken" combat apparently, which is nothing less than comedy.

Nope, I also did the same...

Everyone seems to be saying the same things while not realizing why they are saying it, so let me say it.

Dungeons and Dragons.

There. You want to know why BG I-II and IWD I-II are better? D&D! Seriously, D&D have spent years and years figuring out the "mathy stuff" that artistic Obsidian can't wrap their heads around. What are we on? Patch number 3,001 with complete combat overhaul?

Even Fallout New Vegas Bethesda did all the "mathy stuff" for them. If you were to scrap PoE ENTIRE system (the half-orc but not half-orc, gnome but not gnome, etc etc) and just replace it with ANY D&D rule set this game would be night and day different. No xp for killing things, random number of "resting supplies" which can be bought almost anywhere, might that increases a wizards spell damage, and on and on and on. Obsidian is known for its writing and art style but yet have spent most of their development time for PoE chasing purple dragons with their own totally worthless ruleset. It is C-R-A-P, face it...

[Rednecksith]

Publicado originalmente por Multihog:

Publicado originalmente por Strandly:

I'm near the end of the game now and it's such absolute garbage I had to stop playing it for a while.

It's games like this that make me wish I pursued a career in game development; there is simply no reason a steaming pile like this needs to be floating around in 2015. I mean really, how do you rip off a series of games and manage to make it worse than all of them? Are the guys who made this game the same people out in hollywood making movie "reboots"?

That's what I'm wondering too.

The game feels utterly lifeless and soulless. The dialogue is boring garbage and obviously written for the sake of having a lot of text. You can tell the game was built around the notion that cRPG players LOVE TO READ. Well, sure, I would love to read if the text was actually interesting.

I'm sorry, but compaining about having to read while playing a CRPG really shows what an idiot you are. The lore is incredibly well written and complex, and I'm truly sorry that you lack the intelligence to understand it. Clearly games like Diablo or Torchlight are more your speed, just hack and loot, with an occasional paragraph to read if you feel like it. Of course, this is assuming you know how to read in the first place.

[Zenbane]

I wouldn't call that review 'correct' but it is definitely lengthy. A lot of good points, but too much wording was spent trying to prove that PoE is a bad game. More than half that review involves simply rephrasing what happens in a game in order to portray it as bad. More than half the things the author claims are terrible/boring are 100% more enjoyable than sitting in front of a PC to type a multi-chapter negative review; yet there he is...

[Multihog]

Publicado originalmente por Rednecksith:

Publicado originalmente por Multihog:

That's what I'm wondering too.

The game feels utterly lifeless and soulless. The dialogue is boring garbage and obviously written for the sake of having a lot of text. You can tell the game was built around the notion that cRPG players LOVE TO READ. Well, sure, I would love to read if the text was actually interesting.

I'm sorry, but compaining about having to read while playing a CRPG really shows what an idiot you are. The lore is incredibly well written and complex, and I'm truly sorry that you lack the intelligence to understand it. Clearly games like Diablo or Torchlight are more your speed, just hack and loot, with an occasional paragraph to read if you feel like it. Of course, this is assuming you know how to read in the first place.

I never said it's not well written. It may be technically well written, but I don't care. You can make a technically impressive game, which in the end might turn out to be complete tired, soulless garbage anyway.

I also don't need every little written detail how someone moved their eyebrow, etc.

Also, you're a ♥♥♥♥♥♥ for thinking not liking something automatically means not understanding it.

Obsidian tried to make an old IE game again without even trying to improve the formula at all. Dragon Age: Origins PC version did it right. They mixed the good stuff from the old games with some new and the result is amazing (shame they ♥♥♥♥♥♥ up the rest of the DA games). Obsidian just tried to copy-paste BG1/2, IWD1/2 and PS:T and ended up making a game inferior to the ones it tries to mimic.

[Ssenkrad_II]

Publicado originalmente por Multihog:

Also, you're a ♥♥♥♥♥♥ for thinking not liking something automatically means not understanding it.

This is a common tactic; have you seen the movie Birdman?

"if you didn't like this movie OR like ANY superhero movie it is because you are an IDIOT who clearly couldn't even understand the complexities of how amazing this movie really was and how DUMB your superhero movies really are!"

Look, I am sorry, just because a lot of people like other games and don't like this game doesn't mean that they are all "too dum dum" and that is why they didn't like it and they like other games because "they have more action dum dum!" It could just be because (gasp!*) it isn't as good of a game!

Edit: I edited down the quote... I got the right quote I just might have included too much of it!

[Multihog]

Publicado originalmente por Ssenkrad_II:

Publicado originalmente por Multihog:

I never said it's not well written. It may be technically well written, but I don't care. You can make a technically impressive game, which in the end might turn out to be complete tired, soulless garbage anyway.

I also don't need every little written detail how someone moved their eyebrow, etc.

Also, you're a ♥♥♥♥♥♥ for thinking not liking something automatically means not understanding it.

Obsidian tried to make an old IE game again without even trying to improve the formula at all. Dragon Age: Origins PC version did it right. They mixed the good stuff from the old games with some new and the result is amazing (shame they ♥♥♥♥♥♥ up the rest of the DA games). Obsidian just tried to copy-paste BG1/2, IWD1/2 and PS:T and ended up making a game inferior to the ones it tries to mimic.

This is a common tactic; have you seen the movie Birdman?

"if you didn't like this movie OR like ANY superhero movie it is because you are an IDIOT who clearly couldn't even understand the complexities of how amazing this movie really was and how DUMB your superhero movies really are!"

Look, I am sorry, just because a lot of people like other games and don't like this game doesn't mean that they are all "too dum dum" and that is why they didn't like it and they like other games because "they have more action dum dum!" It could just be because (gasp!*) it isn't as good of a game!

Yeah, exactly, and the game is not JUST the story/writing. Games are interactive media above all, and having a good, compelling story (which PoE doesn't, imo) is not enough by itself. The gameplay needs to be good enough to motivate the player to actually play the thing.

I think the combat sucks in this game, yet some of my favorite games are slow, tactical, thinking man's games (Jagged Alliance 2, SWAT series, Rainbow Six 1, 2 and 3, Door Kickers, Breach & Clear, Frozen Synapse, Frozen Cortex, Baldur's Gate 2, etc). That "lol u dont like it because not enough action"-argument is getting a little old.

Pillars combat is boring, with a million spells of which none are memorable.