Quests, that need to be improved... (Today's Episode: A Servant of Death)

[Schlaumayr]

Hey guys. It happens very often, that a quest begins very promising, but appears far less elaborate, then I expected it to be.
The most recent example is this quest you get from OSRIC, the guy from this expedition hall, who fell from grace regarding that knights order (of the melting pot? "Schmelztiegel" in german).
You have to retrieve his family's breast plate, which is now the property of this maybe dishonest guy PENHELM, who might have a faked affidavit (declaration) concerning his eligibility for becoming a knight of the order.
I found this declaration and it said in the description, it is signed by a medium called Murren, from Dunrydroad (or at least in German it's "Dunrydstraße"). I was wondering, where this Dunrydroad might be, because there was no location on the map with a similar name.

So I talked to PENHELM, but I DID NOT choose the dialog option, that rumor has it, his declaration is fake. Nevertheless I got a new journal entry, that apparently, this medium called Murren lives in a place called "Farnheim" and I would have to go there.

Then I talked to Penhelm again, chose the option about his fake declaration, but still no single word from this dialogue, that told me, where to find Murren (-> Farnheim)?

THE POINT IS, I really hate it when there is crucial quest information, that magically appears in the quest log.

So at first, there was a location information, that is apparently wrong or out of date (Murren is at Dunrydroad).
Second, the quest log was updated with crucial information, although I did not ask the NPC the crucial question.
And Third of all, when I did, the answer was far less informative, than the questlog.

And to make the confusion perfect, I have a screenshot of a dialog with DUNSTAN, where in the last phrase he is saying something like "In opposite to Dunrydroad, who is really in the know" considering Dunrydroad being a person. (This might just be a problem of the german translation, that is by far no god one)

http://fs1.directupload.net/images/150411/cwdhlcxp.jpg

[Schlaumayr]

"Farnheim" is the german name for Brackenburry, where Kurren (exact same name of the medium and agent of Dunryd Row) resides in the House of Hadret.

Originally posted by ๖ۣۜRevolucas:

Why would the guy who counterfeited the document tell you where to find the person?

I agree with you 100% on that and that is the point... this guy didn't tell, but my magical quest log did, after I talked to this guy. That's what annoys me. An info, that I should have to gather from further interogation just appeared in the quest log. And that buildig is not mentioned except for in the quest log. But maybe that's different in the english original version.

[ppaladin123]

"Knights order (of the melting pot? "Schmelztiegel" in german)."

I am pretty sure this "Knights of the Crucible" in English.

[MattStriker]

Brackenbury = Farnheim.

Bracken is a kind of fern and its proper name in german ("Adlerfarn") would be a bit unwieldy, so they left it as just "Farn", i.e. fern in general. The ending, "-bury" is basically an archaic form of "-town" which can be translated several ways in german...overall, "Farnheim" was about as good as they could get there, I think.

[Schlaumayr]

Originally posted by ppaladin123:

"Knights order (of the melting pot? "Schmelztiegel" in german)."

I am pretty sure this "Knights of the Crucible" in English.

I guess that's right, since "crucible" was the only and more probable alternative for "Schmelztiegel" :)

[AlexMBrennan]

Why would the guy who counterfeited the document tell you where to find the person?

That's not a huge leap in logic - you know, or will soon find out if you do the main quest, that a organization of ciphers resides in Hadret House in Brackenbury. If you speak to other knight, they will tell you that recruits are sent to Hadret House in Brackenbury to have these soul audits done.
You have a document which appears to be signed by someone named "Kurren". To find out if it's a forgery, go talk to the person whose signature appears on the document.

[kesat]

Originally posted by AlexMBrennan:

That's not a huge leap in logic - you know, or will soon find out if you do the main quest, that a organization of ciphers resides in Hadret House in Brackenbury. If you speak to other knight, they will tell you that recruits are sent to Hadret House in Brackenbury to have these soul audits done.
You have a document which appears to be signed by someone named "Kurren". To find out if it's a forgery, go talk to the person whose signature appears on the document.

Well, the problem, which the OP mentiones, is that no character mentions that you can find Dunryd Row (and Kurren) in Brackenbury. It's a design flaw within the quest. The game just assumes you got the information as same kind of "general knowledge".

The only way to get the information is either during the mainquest, another sidequest, reading a certain book ("Dunryd Row") or just randomly stumble into the Hadret House. There isn't any other NPC who explains where you'll find Dunryd Row.


Btw: The other crucible knights don't tell you anything about "Hadret House" or "Brackenbury" but only about "Dunryd Row".

[Schlaumayr]

New bummer

So from this Quest with PENHELM, I learned, that I needed to confront the suspect (penhelm) with the fact, that I knew, he had a fake affidavit in order to progress the quest. Why would I tell him, that I investigate him?!

So when I was in this Archive, that is dedicated to the god Wael, I confronted the holy mother GRIMDA with the fact, that I know a certain persona non grata, NEDYN, who wants to have a closer look into a special scroll. Why? Well it was the only option in the dialogue, that seemed like concerning a progress in that quest. And it's something unlogical, that I learned from the quest before, but BAM the quest is finished with me snitching on Nedyn and Kana asking me, if this is what we wanted?!

I don't like this kind of inconsequences, I feel like a dog, that gets a treat for doing something wrong, just to get punished for the second time, it does the same action...

My apologies, if I start becoming fussy ;) ... still like the game, although it seems otherwise

[Dorok]

Is there many bugs like that? I also quoted an anomaly for that quest but not for many quests, the problem is more the quests are basic, but it doesn't help to have played DOS, it raises the expectation on that aspect but not many CRPG avoid fail in routine standard quests and pale quests mechanisms.

[Schlaumayr]

I had a feeling, that it happened to several quests, that's why I started documenting it here. But my feeling might be just exaggerated in my memory. So for now, I cannot answer your question. You have to wait and see, how many more times a quest might be bothering me or other users, BUT only if the other users don't grow tired of my complaints. In that case, I would just shut up and complain in silence ;)

[Dorok]

Ho ok, I clearly remind this one, and vaguely remind another but it was very minor, otherwise didn't noticed.

[Schlaumayr]

Latest flaws in the quest system

When you do jobs for the different factions in Act 2, namely the DOZONS or the KNIGHTS OF THE CRUCIBLE, noone tells you, you have to go exclusively with on of them. I realized this only, when it was already to late. And the quest system seems so stubborn, you can not even talk to the opposing side and switch sides, when logic still tells you, it should be possible.

And the other thing concerns the quest of HARONDS DAUGHTER in the village Dyrford. First thing I saw entering Dyrford, was the leather store in the tower ruin, so I went there directly, cause I thought, I might get some cool armor. I talked to the owner, saw the very cheap supply and got more or less by accident too close to that special door. (You can hardly not come too close to that door). He threatened me and now I was curious.
I entered the ruins after this and I found Haronds daughter... but I had to go back talk to HAROND and some other VILLAGERS to get hints to find the daughter I already found. No possibility to tell those NPCs, that I already stumbled into the ruins below the village and talk to them about it beeing very likely to find her there.

To resume: The quest system occasionally sucks big time.
Still like the game, but this is annoying.

[Balzaphon]

odd i remember it screaming at me which made me hesitate on accepting the second quest from TEH DOZON and finish other factions first quests

[Schlaumayr]

I remember that Wenan told me, the Knights might not like it. If that is "screaming at you, to go exclusively with the dozons" in a game that claims to have this dynamic Reputation system, then I might indeed be deaf.
I expected a loss of my already very good reputation with the knights, but not that the would not talk to me anymore...
Lucky you, you received that message. I did not, as many others...

[Gregorovitch]

Originally posted by joefitts63:

Unfortunately, really good translations require complete fluency in both languages AND the time and attention taken to review them in-game to make sure they make sense in context. Sounds like the German translation didn't get everything it required.

Dunryd Row is confusing anyway, I mean to a native English Speaker. I spent some time looking for it and only came across the correct building by pure chance exploring. "Row" is one of many terms in English used to describe a street of, particulalry, houses. An example of a "row" might be a line of terraced cottages built for perhaps farm workers near some fields on the edge of a village, or a line of mineworkers cottages. It tends to refer to a specific set of houses rather than a street or road per se.

To add to the confusion it is common in Britain anyway to refer to an organisation, group or centre for a particualr trade or proffesion by a well known physical location it resides in or surrounds. Examples are the Prime Ministers office is always referred to as Downing Street, the centre for lawyers is known as Lincolns Inn, Scotland Yard was actually a named street before it moved to a new building, you buy the best suits from Saville Row etc. Although all the organisations or trade groups are often referred to by these place names in all cases the locations do, or in some cases did, actually exists and are indeed where you may find said organisation.

So the naming of the secret police in the game is basically wrong/confusing/ill-chosen to start with becasue there is no such named location. The German translation appears to have simply copied the mistake and in this case it is difficult to see what else the translator could have done.

[Schlaumayr]

Sidequest Breaker Supply and Demand Quest Ondras Gift

When I started to inspect Ondras Gift in Defiance Bay, I happenend to finde lots of interessting sidedquest, but again also a very stupid questbreaker.
When you're in the brothel or in front of it, you see that a customer is beat down by thugs. Inside the brothel you get the task to investigate this case and stop this in the future.
Now to correctly accomplish that task, you have to move to the north-west of the brothel only several meters, but at night. You will encounter hostile thugs and after defeating them, you'll find a key for a cottage.
Questbreaker I found that cottage in the far west of Ondras gift by accident before I encountered theses thugs at night. With my rogue I could enter and meat friendly thugs. Their leader was a woman from the dozens. The thugs were named so I could tell it where the customers bothering thugs. So I attacked them and killed them all.
Then it was night and I encountered this hostile group of thugs, I got the key and looked for a lock where it would fit. I did not find any. Instead I entered that cottage, where I killed the thugs and their leader for the second time, just to get a popup, that updated my journal wiht the fact I have to kill this leader... which I cannot repeat.
When I confront the brothel lady, she asks me for any news... I can not give her any... so I cannot complete the quest...

Damnit, what else to say.... or is the quest still accomplishable?! Any experiences?