PoE vs Wasteland 2

[henrywiddas]

I'm interested in hearing from people who have played both Pillars and Wasteland 2. In these categories I was looking to find out which is better:

1.) Writing
2.) Main story
3.) Combat
4.) Character development

I've only played W2 but to me it's one of the best games I've ever played so if PoE can get close in those categories I think I'll like it!

[sonntam]

1.) Definitely PoE.
2.) Both are pretty classic (and lame). So, a tie, I would say.
3.) Depends on your taste. I personally enjoyed turn-based combat of Shadowrun: Dragonfall more than in Wasteland 2... while Pillars of Eternity in my opinion is pretty stellar as real time based combat.
4.) In terms or roleplay of your character or in term of how your characters develop?

Your character has disposition (are you known for being witty/rational/agressive/honest?), reputation with various fractions, race, class, origin (for example, farmer, cook, aristocrat, etc.), attributes (which matter in many quests in conversations), skills (which matter in scripted scenes). NPCs throughout the world will take note of all of this. I think this created a rather interesting experience and I enjoyed to see my character grow.

Companions have some character development which depends on what you you tell them and how (and whether) you do their companion quests.

[SneerfulOwl]

That's funny because I actually prefer the turn based combat in Wasteland 2 compared to Shadowrun Returns (although, Dragonfall significantly improved the gameplay mechanic).

Wasteland 2 is essentially a love letter to classic Fallout 1 & 2 fans, but not as flexible as FO 1&2.

PoE is better in terms of user customization, but that doesn't make Wasteland 2 inferior. They are actually both good games.

[Bozz 💀]

I hated combat systeme in W2, I don't know if they changed anything but that's what made me drop the game before even getting to the 2nd part, it's very basic, no real tactics beside the placements of your soldiers... I saw a few patches have gone out since then maybe I will give it another go...

[henrywiddas]

wow, PoE sounds a lot more in-depth for sure, pity about the main story but i guess they are writing for a particular genre and have to fit in the tropes etc everyone is familiar with.

One of my favourite games of all time, Deadly Premonition, doesn't allow genre to get in the way, it just does what the hell it wants so would be good to see a cRPG game go a bit zany and different too while keeping its serious edge.

The main quest for example, rather than saving the world etc, could be something much more mundane, like getting a herbal remedy to your dying mother before she croaks, only to find at the end of the game that the remedy is a poison that ends up killing her and this leads to a fight with the rest of the village that is impossible to win, no matter how beefed up your character has become. and that would be it. the end. im sure it would p1ss a lot of players off but at least it would be different :)

[henrywiddas]

wastleland 2 becomes a lot more tactical on supreme jerk mode, as you can't just bum-rush the enemy, you have to do the maths of combat if you know what i mean and use environment, weapon and action point management very carefully. it's also worth having a few self-imposed rules like only 3 Assault rifles per party so you are forced to use other weapons (including explosives) and learn their mechanics, pros and cons. It's incredibly difficult but do-able and very rewarding when you thrown in ironman saving too :)

[Dorok]

Originally posted by henrywiddas:

I'm interested in hearing from people who have played both Pillars and Wasteland 2. In these categories I was looking to find out which is better:...

1.) Writing: WL2 is overall quite better, much more interesting NPC characters and even some companions (Scotchmo, Angela, Rose, some more). There's some emotions, something PoE hardly succeed create. Story and lore is more uncommon and then more interesting, secondary stories are better.

2.) Main Story: Not sure, more or less on par, eventually PoE main story is a bit more sophisticated.

3.) Combat: Not sure, WL2 benefits of much more sophisticated terrains allowing different tactics/strategies, PoE can't have that. Also WL2 combats are much more designed but PoE combats work well anyway even with a minimal design of each combat. Paradoxically PoE benefits of real time with pause garbage that generates some complexity and management just from real time and lack of clarity of multiple elements. It's hard to compare because they are very different genres of combats. I would say more or less on par, but I could change my point of view on that by playing more PoE, and they are very different. But I agree with post above Dragonfall combats are better, and I'll add best combats of DOS are better than best combats of both.

4.) Character development: PoE is largely better, more complex, more possibilities, more decisions at level up, more party building choices.

5.) Choices and consequences: WL2 is better, more at all level, micro consequences, more important consequences, more interesting choices, more choices. Still PoE does one thing better, better effort to build grayed choices.

6.) Exploration: For me it's sad you forget this major element. Anyway, WL2 is better even if PoE creates quite better a world feeling, but PoE fails the gameplay design of search stuff and secrets and solve tricks, when WL2 isn't on top but still quite better on that. Also WL2 merges quite better various stuff as combats and dialogs and search stuff and find path and some tricks.

Originally posted by henrywiddas:

wow, PoE sounds a lot more in-depth for sure...

Well first answers was a bit PoE fans oriented in my opinion, you should temper, that said, PoE is very special and not a CRPG to skip, second point it could have points less well done than BG1 or BG2 but it feels well like BG3.

[Josch]

I was very disappointed with Wasteland 2, neither story, characters nor the combat was very exciting. I didn't even finish it, I stopped somewhere in California.

Pillars plays in a totally different league, it's a stellar game, the atmosphere, the characters, character develepment, everything is so much better. The combat is not as good as in Baldurs Gate 2, but still very enjoyable.

[chebur2012]

It's a ridiculous comparison. Wasteland 2 has no "character development" whatsoever. Just a bunch of useless skills and attributes. Levelups are pointless. No perks, traits, nothing. Combat? A joke. Give them assault rifles and you are set. Boooring. No builds, nothing. Writing is ok, though, but it is not enough to make a great tactical postnuclear rpg. Story? Linear as hell. Really sad, coz I been waiting for that game for 14 years, since Fallout 2. And I haven't played W2 since release because it is so broken. I tried on many occasions and I just can't. And I have very big doubts about Torment, if it is made by the same team. Coz u know, Plascape was one of the best games ever made, and they will break that fond memory. As for PoE, I just can't unimmerse from it, although there are things here that I don't like. Such as low level cap. Or any cap for that matter. Yeah, I know, balance, blah blah. But level cap is like a clock to me. I see level 10, 11, it means that the end is nigh. I hate that. I like complete fog on when and where the story ends. And few customization options talent-wise for some classes. But it is great in many other aspects nonetheless

[henrywiddas]

interesting views, i agree with Dorok, the choices and consequences of W2 are often brutal. Spoiler ahead but I was just repeatedly told by a cyborg to get lost otherwise he'd kill some girl i was looking for on behalf of her parents. she was strapped down, screaming in agony on account of being turned into a cyborg herself. I got greedy and asked one question too many and the cyborg carried out his threat and killed her. that hurt more than the 80 points of damage he then did to my sniper dude :)
Exploration i'm not sure of, do you mean just the fun you have exploring the world? If so then W2 as that, and then some.

[Dorok]

Originally posted by chebur2012:

...
Combat? A joke. Give them assault rifles and you are set. Boooring.
...

Well WL2 need some balancing, as my fun is priority in comparison of exploiting OP holes in games, I didn't used any assault riffle and simple manual edit save (simple xml file) allows change Angela AR weapon ability to another weapon type.

In that context the combats are very fun and terrains and combats design quite more sophisticated than in PoE. And without AR the weapons balances isn't bad, used them all but less pistols and close range but a bit anyway.

Originally posted by henrywiddas:

interesting views, i agree with Dorok, the choices and consequences of W2 are often brutal.

Not always a quality, sometimes it's good emotion trigger, soemtimes it's good difficult choice, but sometimes the game is a little irritating on some consequences. Still you won't find this at this level in PoE.

But again PoE is a great RPG anyway, you should not skip it. RPG is a lot a world simulation (simulation with modesty and I don't mean sandbox) and PoE does that better. And character/party building is quite better too.

[Tom S]

I love both.

[Init]

isn't wastland a rts/tbs with rpg elements like fallout tactic,orger tactice,fanticy tactics and the like original world or not.

one would argue wastland 2 is the continuation of wastland 1 from the 80's does it have elements of fallout? I always thought of fallout as a image of road warrior the movie even the lether jacket portraid it.

[SneerfulOwl]

Originally posted by yesovd:

isn't wastland a rts with rpg elements like fallout tactic,orger tactice,fanticy tactics and the like original world or not.

one would argue wastland 2 is the continuation of wastland 1 from the 80's does it have elements of fallout? I always though of fallout as a image of road worrior the movie even the lether jacket portraid it.

Complicated stuff. WL2 is a sequel to the original WL waaaaay back in the 80s. The gameplay in WL2 is largely influenced from Fallout. Fallout doesn't have image of Mad Max, although there are some elements in the game that has easter eggs, and dogmeat companion in FO1 is an homage to the dog from Mad Max 2. Plus, Brian Fargo is a huge fan of Mad Max series.

[henrywiddas]

wastleland 2 is turn-based with heavy rpg elements, very in-depth. I agree with Dorok, avoid using assault rifles too much, i may do another playthrough on SJ with no AR but not any time soon, i'm finding it tough enough with 3 AR dudes!

[Dorok]

Well another way to play WL2 is just Ranger difficulty and no AR, but ok at Supreme Jerk I don't know. :-)