For Anyone who wants a good detailed Melee/Ranged Cipher Build

[Frank Wisdom]

For those that asked the base stats on my Cipher are

Base Stats/ With Gear So Far
Mig - 14 14
Con- 10 10
Dex - 16 18
Per - 10 10
Int - 18 20
Res - 10 12

I went with a Fire Godlike at first purely for cosmetic and RP purposes (wanted to go Death Godlike for the passive but didn't like in-game models or the portrait) but ended up realizing that the DR passive and small fire damage synergizes really well for Melee Ciphers (it compensates quite a bit for my weaknesses i.e. being a bit squishy, especially at higher lvls). The reason to get High Int is because your spells are the core of your build, especially in terms of duration. At 20 int you get a 50% increase for duration if I'm not mistaken, which is really practical, the AoE size increase is also worth the investment. Trust me it is a better choice than perception no matter how you play (defensive/offensive/melee/ranged). There's a reason it's suggested to be the most important stat for a cipher by the dev's! Also I am playing on hard (and have not been affected by the stats bug)


I use an Estoc/Blunderbuss Combo for weapons. Estoc for DR reduction and High per hit damage, while the Blunderbuss is used in combination with draining whip (as stated below) as they synergise well together. You should choose either fire or corrossive lash if enchanting weapons with elemental damage). Corrode is highly versatile and not many enemies are immune, it also affects the most types of armors. Fire damage effects a lot of enemies including spirits, and I hear a lot of people have trouble with shades, so it is a good alternative to Corrode. The only downside to the fire enchantment that I found is that wurms, drakes and Dragons especially are highly resistant.

and in terms of Abilities and Talents (In the order that I chose them and why)

Talents : 1) Biting whip - (before you get a blunderbuss it'll take time, the extra damage will be beneficial at the start (buy a two-handed sword for more damage per hit) or run with a mace (DR bypass) and shield (without penaty to accuracy). getting more damage out of every hit means you'll replenish your power pool faster, just make sure never to be full so you always maxamise damage.

2) Draining Whip - not only do you get +2 points of power for every hit, but combined with the blunderbuss (which now has 6 pellets not 8, apparently) you get to replenish your power pool extremely quickly. Spam Mental Binding to paralyze enemies and get other enemies around them stuck, and mow em down with a blunderbuss, or Estoc. I think all characters should be flexible and have both a ranged and melee weapon for adaptability. The mechanics in this game allow for such without penalizing a character for investing in multiple attack methods.. Take advantage of it.

3) Psychic Backlash - Limited because it only works when A) an enemy attacks you, and B) only when said attack is targetting your will attribute. However the will attribute is the same one you use to check enemies with most of your powers. That includes paralyzing attacks and a lot of other nasty and potentially fatal encounters. This will effectively neutralize an enemy for a few seconds when attacking you, giving you time to recoup and retaliate.

4) Two-Handed Weapon Style - I chose this to deal more damage (15% more damage) with my Estoc. I first *mistakenly* believed it also affected ranged weapons (which are all two-handed weapons). I doesn't, so be weary if you think as I did. I chose this as my forth ability rather than the class specific power greater focus because this talent is misleading. It states that it add +10 *Maximum* Power, which means it won't affect your power pool until lvl 12 (unless your power pool maxes out before that, which would be odd). Otherwise it would be a good talent to start with, but it's not so reserve it for the end. I'm at lvl 8 as of now so this is as far as my choices go for talents, #4 was chosen in terms of favored playstyle rather than practicality.

5)Brutal Backlash - Enhances Psychic Backlash to cause 20 raw damage whenever you are hit with an attack that targets your will defense.

6) Bloody Slaughter (I ended up going with this passive for my last talent, though a lot of the other talents would benefit this build as well).

Other good choices for a Melee/Ranged Cipher would be,

Marksmen (+5 accuracy against enemies at longer range).

Close Shooter (10% Damage Increase to enemies at Close Range).

Gunner (20% reload speed for ranged weapons).

Penetrating Shot *Modal* (-20% attack speed, +5 ranged DR bypass) good when combined with Kana's reload speed buff and/or gunner, which techincally negates the effect (slower attack, faster reload) and gives you a "net" DR bypass bonus.

Quick Switch (Reduces the Recovery Time when switching weapons or spells in grimoires. -1.5 Weapon Change Recovery, -4 Grimoire cooldown).

Bloody Slaughter (All attacks at enemies with low Endurance convert +20% of Hits to Crits. Crits done this way have +0.5 increased crit damage multiplier).

Superior Deflection (+5 deflection) not that impressive but if you want a bit more survivability it's an option, albeit an unimpressive one.



*Scion of Flame* (20% fire damage increase, +5 fire damage reduction) choose this only if you are a Fire Godlike like myself, The fire damage increases our retaliatory fire damage and the reduction will also be useful against , wurms, drakes, and dragons which are as of yet the most powerful enemies that we will face (I imagine).

Alright for Abilities I'll go by levels (ascending) obviously, and briefly say why I chose them

Cipher Abilities

Level 1
1) Antipathetic Field (Creates a toxic physical manifestation of the mutual antipathy between the cipher and the enemy target. Anyone caught in the path between the two will suffer Corrosive damage). used strategically to clear mobs, great combo with Mental Binding. Be careful, this affects allies as well as stated above, keep them out of the beam!

2) Mind Wave (Raw single target Damage + Knockback for multiple enemies standing behind target)

3) Soul Shock (Targets an Ally with a detonated pulse of shock damage that affects all enemies in the AoE) great when used on a tank at low levels to decimate multiple enemies)

Level 2

1) Mental Binding (By far the best ability the Cipher has! It Paralyses a single target but also creates a field around said enemy that keeps other enemies stuck and unable to move. They can still attack you if you get close though, so shoot them at range or use your tank to engage them while wailing on the paralyzed enemy. Very affective to either disable powerful enemies while destroying weaker ones, or for managing mobs and controlling the battlefield by strategically positioning your allies around specific enemies. With high Accuracy, it almost never grazes and rarely is negated. Remember that enemies who had activated an ability such as a spell or Knockdown will resume said ability once the paralysis wears off. i.e. this ability has no interrupt so be careful when dealing with poweful enemies!

2) Mind Blades (Raw damage, jumps to multiple targets with *increased* damage...Awesome)

3) Psychovampiric shield (Drains Intellect from enemies and uses it to temporarily increase his or her Deflection. The increase in the cipher's Deflection is dependent on how much Intellect he or she successfully drains from victims). Basically +10 deflect for us, -10 for the enemy. With 18 Int, you always get a max drain (10). Really good for survivability if going Melee, example start with Mental binding (always open with mental binding unless you want to bait enemies into a grouped postion for maximum effect) and then use Psychvampiric shiled while they are paralyzed if any other enemies decide to attack you. It lasts a really long time (about one minute real time with high Int)

4) Recall Agony (The cipher causes the target to re-experience the pain of a wound moments after the target originally suffered it. The damage is a percentage of the original value, but it ignores the armor of the target). 25% of total damaged reflected on all enemies engaging ally when cast on said Ally. (Haven't used it much since my strategies don't really on a tank as much, good for boss mobs in the middle of a fight.

Level 3

1) Secret Horrors (Causes enemies in the area of effect believe their worst fears have been realized, Frightening and Sickening them for the duration. Causes enemies in the area of effect believe their worst fears have been realized, Frightening and Sickening them for the duration). Very large AoE, Fast cast (like most of the abilities I choose, make sure to weigh in casting time in your decisions, which is important for survivability)

2) Soul Ignition (Forces an enemy's soul to "leak" energy, igniting the air around them and Burning them over time). Great Single Target DoT when combined with High Int. Good for bosses and resistant enemies. Remember that it deals burn damage rather than raw damage, making it effective against spirits for example, but much less so for wurms, drakes or dragons).

3) Ectopsychic Echo (The cipher and an ally generate a bolt of psychic energy that periodically rebounds between them, causing Crush damage to anyone caught in the area). Potentially devasting if used stratgically. Same as Antipathetic Field but even better since you control both sides of the effect, no having to compensate for enemy movement.

3) Pain link (reapplies 25% of all damage done to targeted ally) went with this for my 3rd power (level 3) but hardly ever used it. The disadvantage is you need to get hit a bunch of times before it deals a lot of damage to your enemies, though most of the time you end up killing monsters before that happens. Could be practical with powerful bosses that hit often but again, never had to use it, opportunities are scarce.

Level 4

1) Silent Scream (Produces a psychic howl in the targeted area, Stunning the target as well as dealing Raw damage to all enemies within. Stands a high chance of causing an Interrupt). Raw Damage + Stun + possible Interupt! decent AoE, has a lesser chance of stunning then, Mental binding has of Paralysing, but has the advantages stated above. Awesome

2) Mind Lance (Impales the target with a lance of pure force, inflicting major Pierce damage to all in the line of attack with a high chance of causing an Interrupt). Amazing damage with a Fast cast time that can potentially hit many enemies and interupt them as well! Very powerful damage dealer when combined with Mental Binding!

3) Pain Block (Ally only, +10 DR on selected ally for 30 secs, 84.7 Endurance applied over 30 secs (base 20 secs). Now my Int score is at 20 so the Endurance healed and the amount of time is buffed in relation to my Int, but this must be a bug that will be fixed because duration should not be increased on beneficial spells (healing) unless the amount of Endurance scales to match. However, in HoT cases, it is always more beneficial to have reduced time over heals, so even with scaling Endurance healed, the added amount of time would be a detriment when powerful attacks hit or crit your character... So they definitely have fix that. Anyways good power when your weaker allies (casters) are in trouble. Also good when your healer is either out of good heals or your healer is getting murdered, (though this should never happen).

Level 5

1) Borrowed Instinct (great buff/debuff power that targets Will defense stats such as Intelligence and Perception and turns them into raw defense and offense for your Cipher). This power takes -8 Int and -8 Per from your enemies and gives you +20 on all defenses and +20 Melee accuracy, which is awesome for this build. it has good reach (15m) and lasts a bit of time (base 15 secs) 22 secs with 20 Int. The biggest flaw and biggest strength is that it targets enemies' Will defense. So when attacking powerful enemies that use highly dangerous Spells and powers that target Will such as the Vithrack for example, it can effectively cripple their attacks and leave them vulnerable to your own Powers which also target WIl defense (wherein also lies the powers biggest weakness). All enemies who have high Int also have high Will defense, so using this ability on hard and PotD difficulties make it increasingly harder to hit enemies who are most succeptible to the power. you can obviously use this on any enemies to reap the benefits (which is also highly effective on enemies who are hard to hit with AoE spells (Refex defense, as it targets Perception). So be careful when using it against prime targets such as Vithracks as you might just end up wasting your power pool at higher difficulties and end game content.

2) Detonate (Inflicts Raw damage to single targets causing high damage and also Explodes :D a weak (heavily damaged) target causing AoE crush damage. If that last bit didn't sell you then I don't know why you play violent video games). But seriously, this is a great spell and quite affective when your tank has a couple of enemies engaged. Great finisher and great against bosses. the crush AoE damage is not Foe only however, so be careful when applying near weak enemies close to weak party memebers. This spell targets fortitude, making it practical against foes with strong Will defense, i.e. see above.

3) Ringleader (powerful spells that dominates multiple enemies and bends them to your will, making them effective allies for a while). Good spell when facing off agianst many powerful enemies. Since we are melee Ciphers I try to avoid these type of spells in favor of spells that damage, debilitate or hinder enemies. what annoys me with these is sometimes the effect stretches out for a long time after all other enemies are dead. Of course you can just kill the "allies" while the spell is still in effect. It also has a long casting time which makes you quite vulnerable for a bit so if you miss (and you will against powerful enemies with high Int) this spell becomes much less viable, especially on higher difficulties. Also, if you choose to play with The Grieving Mother in your party (which you should, as having to part members using mental binding is OP), then having mind control powers is much less useful as she is naturally built that way narratively and mechanically. (if you get her at low levels as I did this can be mitigated somewhat, though make sure you go back to her level 2 Spells and get Mental Binding, as she won't have it with automatic leveling).

Level 6 (End level powers, note that you can get all of these powers unless you feel the need to get more low level ones).

1) Amplified Wave (Amazingly Uber power that targets the Fortitude defense and knocks all enemies in it's field prone for a limited time, inflicting crush damage). Ok this is THE power you need to get first, it becomes essential at higher end levels against mobs and bosses. Incredible power with huge range (base 8 meters, 12.4 meters with 20 Int) and a FAST cast time. It pretty much effects all enemies you'll be facing, no matter how many there are. The range is extremely practical for many situations, it does have a high cost, so use it strategically. (This power is one of the reasons having The Grieving Mother is so useful, having the ability to cast two of these in succession combined with powerful AoE spells from your caster makes most fights a cakewalk).

2) Mind Plague (Confuses and Dazes enemies then jump to potentially 5 other targets). Great ability with an average cast time. 10 m cast distance +8 meter jumping distance (so 10 m from targeted enemy then 8 m from said enemy to other enemies, making for very good reach). This is a very good way to thin the herd when dealing with many enemies. It disables some enemies for a while and makes them weak for high damaging attacks (if it hits). Targets Will.

3) Disintegration ( A nod to the D&D fans, this power is a damage over time spell that deals Raw damage and can effectively annihilate an enemy with low endurance (though endurance has to reach 0, which is more of an aesthetic gimick than anything, but a pleasing one to witness). This spell has a slow cast time and deals reletively low damage (over time, base 15 seconds) compared to other single hit damage spells (such as detonate or soul ignition). The advantage it has over Soul Ignition is that it deals raw damage, making it much more flexible, but detonate is much more effective in my opinion and also deals Raw damage. This should only be used over detonate is you don't want one of your part memebers to be hurt by the AoE that Detonate provides when dealing with weak (heavily damaged) enemies. I never use this power and honestly it isn't very useful. I took it because I already had chosen all the powers I wanted. Note that you can take any other power that suits you instead without missing out.


And that is it, A lot of different abilites seem good past level 2 so choosing can be hard. I weighed my choices heavily and took in consideration casting speed and diversity. My choices encompass, Raw single target damage dealing, AoE CC's (some of which also deal damage) and survivability and buffs. So far I have managed extremely well against all foes on hard difficulty. To make things more challenging and interesting, I always try to clear dungeons without sleeping (such as in the Endless Paths).

I spent quite a bit more time than I thought I would writing this so I really hope this helps people out. I'll make it it's own Post for anyone specifically interested in the Cipher looking for a good build.

[Flip]

Thats very cool, not tried a cipher yet but your post was very detailed. A few questions if I may

1.) Int decreses the chance enemies resist spells? I did not know that, good to know!

2.) If one wanted to play a spell sword (i.e medium/heavy armor, melee weapon) would you suggest Cipher or mage? I am thinking Cipher might be a better fit overall than mage for this purpose.

[Fiach]

Thanks for posting, may give it a shot in the future, cheers :)

[Wasted_46]

nice. I'm doing a solo cipher run so I had to min/max the abilities further.
I'm running 20 dex (with racial bonus), 16 con 4 per 9 res fire godlike.
I'm not too far in, the eyestrike and the antipathic field are the nicest spells so far. Deflection is not stellar due to the 4 per but the eyestrike helps tons.

[Frank Wisdom]

1) It effects your Will Defense, while accuracy determines your hit rate for all things (weapons, spells etc.)

2) Well I chose the Cipher because I always played as a multiclass fighter/mage in baldur's gate so I do suggest Cipher, but go with light armor (-15% speed reduction) it has 5 DR with fine enchantment, and is you get one that has +2 lore and+2 Int in the Endless Paths (lvl 6 I think)

[feliscon]

Originally posted by Nevan:

Thats very cool, not tried a cipher yet but your post was very detailed. A few questions if I may

1.) Int decreses the chance enemies resist spells? I did not know that, good to know!

2.) If one wanted to play a spell sword (i.e medium/heavy armor, melee weapon) would you suggest Cipher or mage? I am thinking Cipher might be a better fit overall than mage for this purpose.

1) No, it des not. It affects AoE and duration, and adds to your Will defence.

2)Probably better with a cipher, but you'd have to build to take into account being slower from the armour.

[Frank Wisdom]

Originally posted by Wasted_46:

nice. I'm doing a solo cipher run so I had to min/max the abilities further.
I'm running 20 dex (with racial bonus), 16 con 4 per 9 res fire godlike.
I'm not too far in, the eyestrike and the antipathic field are the nicest spells so far. Deflection is not stellar due to the 4 per but the eyestrike helps tons.

I felt like staying away from Min/Maxing which is a trope in D&D rulesets I always hated in terms of roleplaying. It isn't needed for my build nor do I suggest it other than lowering your constitution slightly as it scales with your class based on a percentage, which is much less dramatic than a fighter for example which has a very high Endurance and health pool and gains per lvl. The defense ratings shouldn't be in the negative if you're looking for a potential survivable build, but let me know how that turns out ;)

[Frank Wisdom]

Originally posted by Nevan:

Thats very cool, not tried a cipher yet but your post was very detailed. A few questions if I may

1.) Int decreses the chance enemies resist spells? I did not know that, good to know!

2.) If one wanted to play a spell sword (i.e medium/heavy armor, melee weapon) would you suggest Cipher or mage? I am thinking Cipher might be a better fit overall than mage for this purpose.

Feliscon is right,

Here's how that works

Accuracy: Accuracy is your characters general chance to hit. This is influenced by your class and level, or by talents or temporary magical effects.

Accuracy is compared against the appropriate defense for a particular attack. The result of that comparison then modifies the roll.

For example, in an attack against the above wolf I received this roll:

Accuracy 25 (Me) - Deflection 27 (Wolf Defense) = -2
A d100 roll of 52 + -2 (The result of the comparison) = 50 (Total)
50 (total) resulted in a Grazing Hit.

The Thresholds for hits are as follows:
15 or Less = Miss
16 to 50 = Grazing Hit (50% Damage and Duration)
51 to 100 = Hit (100% Damage and Duration)
Over 100 = Critical (150% Damage and Duration)

Courtesy of Caelinus

[Wasted_46]

Originally posted by Frank Wisdom:

Originally posted by Wasted_46:

nice. I'm doing a solo cipher run so I had to min/max the abilities further.
I'm running 20 dex (with racial bonus), 16 con 4 per 9 res fire godlike.
I'm not too far in, the eyestrike and the antipathic field are the nicest spells so far. Deflection is not stellar due to the 4 per but the eyestrike helps tons.

I felt like staying away from Min/Maxing which is a trope in D&D rulesets I always hated in terms of roleplaying. It isn't needed for my build nor do I suggest it other than lowering your constitution slightly as it scales with your class based on a percentage, which is much less dramatic than a fighter for example which has a very high Endurance and health pool and gains per lvl. The defense ratings shouldn't be in the negative if you're looking for a potential survivable build, but let me know how that turns out ;)

Yeah I think I will reroll with higher stats that give +deflection (per, res) and an overall lower endurance, since I can compensate vs. spell effects with potions.
I'm against min/maxing generally as well, but soloing a game is not about roleplaying, its about figuring the system out :)

[WalQ]

Im going to try Cipher on my second run. But i have one question so far.
How works ciphers resource development?
I mean it depends on hit or on damage?
If its depending on hit, it would not be better to use some fast weapons than 2h?
Maybe dual welding?

[Frank Wisdom]

It depends on the per hit damage, meaning both the speed of every hit and the damage of every hit matters. The more damage you deal, the more you recover but the faster you hit the more you recover also. With that said though it's not just about gaining focus it's about how much damage you can deal in the most efficient way. The reason that using two weapon fighting is less useful is that you go up against an enemies DR twice since you hit with two weapons, effectively reducing your per hit damage. So you deal more hits per second but less damage. It is viable if your goal is simply gaining focus and you max out dex and strength but there really are better classes that take advantage of that. It could work quite well with the right attribute distribution and weapon choices however. Just experiment with your build to maximize effeciency with the playstyle you enjoy. What I describe is just one of many ways to go.

[Wasted_46]

I found out with my solo cipher that you kinda wanna have 3 weapon configurations:
- dual silettos for fast attacking /fast focus
- Estoc when the DR is just too high
- hatchet+shield if you need survivability first and foremost.

Vs. solo enemies dual silettos are the best. You can permastun the enemy with that lvl2 spell (forgot the name), get enough focus to cast again, repeat.

In any case, get the Dx up to 20.

[nakoda]

18 5 15 10 15 15

take note that Dex/Percep and Int/Res balance each other out.

You can 5/15 each of those pairs to completely negate the negative save-roll bonuses, and they compliment the 10%/15% buffs across the board.

(example, 20 might 18 con 15 dex 5 pre 5 int 15 res on a fighter makes for a fast swinging heavy duty tank)

[Kozzy]

I love the Cipher and Monk class!

[Flip]

Question, would this build work without guns, i.e substituting guns with say bows, X-bows or Arbalast etc? I ask because for personal (and wierd) reasons I don't like using guns. Just wondering how big a hit it would be to not use em for this build?

[Frank Wisdom]

Originally posted by Nevan:

Question, would this build work without guns, i.e substituting guns with say bows, X-bows or Arbalast etc? I ask because for personal (and wierd) reasons I don't like using guns. Just wondering how big a hit it would be to not use em for this build?

The gun (Blunderbuss) I mainly use for emergency power refills or when I am goading enemies in a choke point but find them out of Melee reach with my Cipher ( your tank and off rank should be at the forefront if executing that strategy. In that case I can shoot them with a weapon that can not only hit with DR Bypass (lead spitter has 4 base bypass + rending which gives an extra 3 bypass) and can restore powers quickly because of the many pellets (6 hits per shot). Since all firearms are slow to shoot and slow to reload, this greatly maximizes the efficiency of every shot.

If you do decide to go without guns there are many alternatives. What I highly suggest is to fund a weapon that has increased speed both passively and with an enchantment (best option is the hunting bow). Get the quality to exquisite + damaging 2 in order to maximize damage. With the build I suggest you a only will be engaging enemies in Melee, however it is important to have flexibility at all times and find a way to synergize well with you class abilities (In the Ciphers case powers).

Lastly, guns are usually good for one shot off in order to quickly restore power (with this build), never initiate combat with a weapon as you don't receive the soul whip extra damage and never more than one shot because the reload time + recovery time (even with 20 dex) Makes it inefficient when trying to maximize damage output.

Hope that helps.